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From: Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 23:47:32 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Questions on a few words and phrases in Lojban
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On 22 October 2013 22:22, Paul Rapoport <coronacoreanici@gmail.com> wrote:

> coi rodo,
>
> This post is going to be in English, as most of my Lojbanic metalinguistic
> talk is.
> I've been wondering for a while about how to say a few things.
>
> First: discard/throw away/get rid of. I just haven't been able to find
> this on sutsis. How would you say "I throw away the book."?
>

I'd probably use {to'e cpacu} or {to'e lebna}.


> Second: "still". Would this just be {za'o}? Would "I can still go" be {mi
> za'o ka'e klama}? Would that also work for phrases like "Still, I don't
> think this is the right choice.", as in "despite what you have said"?
>

Using {za'o} for this is pretty much malglico, unless there was actually
some kind of point at which "being able to go" should have ended. I tend to
use {ca'o} since the event is simply ongoing. However, the "still"s used in
your examples carry the meanings of "despite [something]" and "however".
The latter case is easy: just use {ku'i}. The former case is not so easy.
I'd probably just say it in two sentences to avoid unnecessarily
complicated grammar: {.i lo du'u do makau cusku cu nalvai la'e di'e .i mi
ca'o jinvi lo du'u da'i naldra se cuxna}.
However, if you admit the following, then you can say something like
"despite" in a very small number of words:
Consider {mu'i} = {fi'o mukti}. Then, {to'e mu'i} = {fi'o to'e mukti} ~>
{fi'o mukti be to'e bo zo'e} (this is *not* how to'e is supposed to work).
Now, let's add {nai} such that {to'e mu'i nai} = {fi'o na to'e mukti} ~>
{fi'o na mukti be to'e bo zo'e}, where zo'e is the bridi in which this
operator appears.
Neat! We just found a 3-word way to say "despite" i.e. "with [thing] that
is not a motivation for the contrary [of our main claim]."

Thus, {.i mi to'e mu'i nai klama kakne} is "I can still go."
(It's better to use {kakne} than {ka'e} for "can", since {ka'e} is about
the likelihood of the the event, whereas {kakne} is really about something
being able to do something.)


> Finally: "just". How would you say "just do it" or "just listen to me"?
>
>
"Just use {sa'u}!" .i sa'u ko pilno zo sa'u !
{.i sa'u ko zukte} {.i sa'u ko mi tinju'i}.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o


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<div dir=3D"ltr">On 22 October 2013 22:22, Paul Rapoport <span dir=3D"ltr">=
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:coronacoreanici@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">coronaco=
reanici@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">coi rodo,<br><br>This post =
is going to be in English, as most of my Lojbanic metalinguistic talk is.<b=
r>

I&#39;ve been wondering for a while about how to say a few things.<br><br>F=
irst: discard/throw away/get rid of. I just haven&#39;t been able to find t=
his on sutsis. How would you say &quot;I throw away the book.&quot;?<br>

</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I&#39;d probably use {to&#39;e cpacu=
} or {to&#39;e lebna}.<br></div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">

<div dir=3D"ltr">Second: &quot;still&quot;. Would this just be {za&#39;o}? =
Would &quot;I can still go&quot; be {mi za&#39;o ka&#39;e klama}? Would tha=
t also work for phrases like &quot;Still, I don&#39;t think this is the rig=
ht choice.&quot;, as in &quot;despite what you have said&quot;?<br>

</div></blockquote><div><br>Using {za&#39;o} for this is pretty much malgli=
co, unless there was actually some kind of point at which &quot;being able =
to go&quot; should have ended. I tend to use {ca&#39;o} since the event is =
simply ongoing. However, the &quot;still&quot;s used in your examples carry=
 the meanings of &quot;despite [something]&quot; and &quot;however&quot;. T=
he latter case is easy: just use {ku&#39;i}. The former case is not so easy=
. I&#39;d probably just say it in two sentences to avoid unnecessarily comp=
licated grammar: {.i lo du&#39;u do makau cusku cu nalvai la&#39;e di&#39;e=
 .i mi ca&#39;o jinvi lo du&#39;u da&#39;i naldra se cuxna}. <br>

However, if you admit the following, then you can say something like &quot;=
despite&quot; in a very small number of words:<br>Consider {mu&#39;i} =3D {=
fi&#39;o mukti}. Then, {to&#39;e mu&#39;i} =3D {fi&#39;o to&#39;e mukti} ~&=
gt; {fi&#39;o mukti be to&#39;e bo zo&#39;e} (this is *not* how to&#39;e is=
 supposed to work). Now, let&#39;s add {nai} such that {to&#39;e mu&#39;i n=
ai} =3D {fi&#39;o na to&#39;e mukti} ~&gt; {fi&#39;o na mukti be to&#39;e b=
o zo&#39;e}, where zo&#39;e is the bridi in which this operator appears.<br=
>

Neat! We just found a 3-word way to say &quot;despite&quot; i.e. &quot;with=
 [thing] that is not a motivation for the contrary [of our main claim].&quo=
t;<br><br>Thus, {.i mi to&#39;e mu&#39;i nai klama kakne} is &quot;I can st=
ill go.&quot;<br>

(It&#39;s better to use {kakne} than {ka&#39;e} for &quot;can&quot;, since =
{ka&#39;e} is about the likelihood of the the event, whereas {kakne} is rea=
lly about something being able to do something.)<br>=A0<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">Finally: &quot;just&quot;. How would you say &quot;just do=
 it&quot; or &quot;just listen to me&quot;?<br><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font=
 color=3D"#888888"><br></font></span></div></blockquote><div><br>&quot;Just=
 use {sa&#39;u}!&quot; .i sa&#39;u ko pilno zo sa&#39;u !<br>

{.i sa&#39;u ko zukte} {.i sa&#39;u ko mi tinju&#39;i}.<br><br>.i mi&#39;e =
la tsani mu&#39;o<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D=
"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
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</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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