Received: from mail-pa0-f61.google.com ([209.85.220.61]:33115) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VYqDI-0001rP-Bh for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 21:38:37 -0700 Received: by mail-pa0-f61.google.com with SMTP id bj1sf23892pad.26 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 21:38:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=hha4GigkVzus5NuR01ObDBTT9CMc70STPDVHdQH6myw=; b=OqslvqnUOZHmf5mZXfyZHmgSbQi2DkrGCcIFG5clMduKErl3OBIgSxhEqPHHh38mxb R+oNgkg9lM1kWyuQF0oae5E32kNHJjEdDRXh7K3VeoDY9wV0sJWkYW5xXo73ZzllGjEt 1vW3TMd8bsDxAU+kHQQxNQMlKezW4+q6hcq/b9O9RjzqJZvIHg2JhmFJILV7QvmGcwTI q2lBoAiseUQ38VF3qOr4Nu4iEXdehSnHFn5hbp/gFLXipv/Cc8dZ5SaBj6nofRnJP0s2 Cvu5zcxQNMMuuY/3sDa69ODVi8HBRR/eFOA0+cF9mK+8qm3H7SfWxEb2wJoT+X5SFs1S BdCw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=hha4GigkVzus5NuR01ObDBTT9CMc70STPDVHdQH6myw=; b=LHVcbDOhoYgij692ungZXRMqIik/pN5em7NK/o0ddeN8mXpvvWHGmPEe16tMRVBjAQ cbdU4Ic/WLB07ygpOSuoPBgW/dKpVl3VCohjMAkAV7Qptqbtf77UBwR+zpOIaUlVm+N4 j+WkBbB1boLlS58z9trYm7jvwTQ6kcnZEkDd0mUvI7HMkjgJChBFK5BDoK+atFkDj9QF G3pVKTuojF8f7UmfhDwlHP+CLC0ywWi/4Tf2QHytOHOuLOgeZOzSJdIJlfNQ+p1z+z1K kfY6HTTieoq322bszYYG4t2QgiPZAF2s6F/maiHPf8Ie/1xL1FAHCkT8c5J+P5G5dvwm D+xA== X-Received: by 10.49.27.137 with SMTP id t9mr1466qeg.34.1382503105949; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 21:38:25 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.15.198 with SMTP id z6ls322401qec.63.gmail; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 21:38:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.49.14.132 with SMTP id p4mr730481qec.2.1382503105541; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 21:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 21:38:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Rapoport To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [lojban] Questions on a few words and phrases in Lojban MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: coronacoreanici@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2670_25921679.1382503105026" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_2670_25921679.1382503105026 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 za'o zo'u I had been thinking about "My having the property of being able to go extends beyond what I had thought was the natural conclusion." as a babelfish gloss. ka'e zo'u pe'i Isn't it meant to mean "has innate capability, possibly yet unrealized, to do something"? ta'o re'i le pu'o ca nu sidju mi po'e do On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 11:47:32 PM UTC-4, tsani wrote: > > On 22 October 2013 22:22, Paul Rapoport > > wrote: > >> coi rodo, >> >> This post is going to be in English, as most of my Lojbanic >> metalinguistic talk is. >> I've been wondering for a while about how to say a few things. >> >> First: discard/throw away/get rid of. I just haven't been able to find >> this on sutsis. How would you say "I throw away the book."? >> > > I'd probably use {to'e cpacu} or {to'e lebna}. > > >> Second: "still". Would this just be {za'o}? Would "I can still go" be {mi >> za'o ka'e klama}? Would that also work for phrases like "Still, I don't >> think this is the right choice.", as in "despite what you have said"? >> > > Using {za'o} for this is pretty much malglico, unless there was actually > some kind of point at which "being able to go" should have ended. I tend to > use {ca'o} since the event is simply ongoing. However, the "still"s used in > your examples carry the meanings of "despite [something]" and "however". > The latter case is easy: just use {ku'i}. The former case is not so easy. > I'd probably just say it in two sentences to avoid unnecessarily > complicated grammar: {.i lo du'u do makau cusku cu nalvai la'e di'e .i mi > ca'o jinvi lo du'u da'i naldra se cuxna}. > However, if you admit the following, then you can say something like > "despite" in a very small number of words: > Consider {mu'i} = {fi'o mukti}. Then, {to'e mu'i} = {fi'o to'e mukti} ~> > {fi'o mukti be to'e bo zo'e} (this is *not* how to'e is supposed to work). > Now, let's add {nai} such that {to'e mu'i nai} = {fi'o na to'e mukti} ~> > {fi'o na mukti be to'e bo zo'e}, where zo'e is the bridi in which this > operator appears. > Neat! We just found a 3-word way to say "despite" i.e. "with [thing] that > is not a motivation for the contrary [of our main claim]." > > Thus, {.i mi to'e mu'i nai klama kakne} is "I can still go." > (It's better to use {kakne} than {ka'e} for "can", since {ka'e} is about > the likelihood of the the event, whereas {kakne} is really about something > being able to do something.) > > >> Finally: "just". How would you say "just do it" or "just listen to me"? >> >> > "Just use {sa'u}!" .i sa'u ko pilno zo sa'u ! > {.i sa'u ko zukte} {.i sa'u ko mi tinju'i}. > > .i mi'e la tsani mu'o > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_2670_25921679.1382503105026 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
za'o zo'u I had been thinking about "My having the propert= y of being able to go extends beyond what I had thought was the natural con= clusion." as a babelfish gloss.
ka'e zo'u pe'i Isn't it meant to mean "h= as innate capability, possibly yet unrealized, to do something"?

ta'= o re'i le pu'o ca nu sidju mi po'e do

On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 1= 1:47:32 PM UTC-4, tsani wrote:
=
On 22 October 2013 22:22, Paul Rapoport = <coronac...@gmail.com> wrote:
coi rodo,

This post = is going to be in English, as most of my Lojbanic metalinguistic talk is. I've been wondering for a while about how to say a few things.

First= : discard/throw away/get rid of. I just haven't been able to find this on s= utsis. How would you say "I throw away the book."?

I'd probably use {to'e cpacu} or {to= 'e lebna}.
 
Second: "still". Would this just be {za'o}? Would "I can s= till go" be {mi za'o ka'e klama}? Would that also work for phrases like "St= ill, I don't think this is the right choice.", as in "despite what you have= said"?

Using {za'o} for this is pretty much malglico, = unless there was actually some kind of point at which "being able to go" sh= ould have ended. I tend to use {ca'o} since the event is simply ongoing. Ho= wever, the "still"s used in your examples carry the meanings of "despite [s= omething]" and "however". The latter case is easy: just use {ku'i}. The for= mer case is not so easy. I'd probably just say it in two sentences to avoid= unnecessarily complicated grammar: {.i lo du'u do makau cusku cu nalvai la= 'e di'e .i mi ca'o jinvi lo du'u da'i naldra se cuxna}.
However, if you admit the following, then you can say something like "despi= te" in a very small number of words:
Consider {mu'i} =3D {fi'o mukti}. T= hen, {to'e mu'i} =3D {fi'o to'e mukti} ~> {fi'o mukti be to'e bo zo'e} (= this is *not* how to'e is supposed to work). Now, let's add {nai} such that= {to'e mu'i nai} =3D {fi'o na to'e mukti} ~> {fi'o na mukti be to'e bo z= o'e}, where zo'e is the bridi in which this operator appears.
Neat! We just found a 3-word way to say "despite" i.e. "with [thing] that i= s not a motivation for the contrary [of our main claim]."

Thus, {.i = mi to'e mu'i nai klama kakne} is "I can still go."
(It's better to use {kakne} than {ka'e} for "can", since {ka'e} is about th= e likelihood of the the event, whereas {kakne} is really about something be= ing able to do something.)
 
Finally: "just". How would you say "just do it" or "just l= isten to me"?


"Just use {sa'u}!" .i sa'u ko pilno zo sa'u !
{.i sa'u ko zukte} {.i sa'u ko mi tinju'i}.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o 
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
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