Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:22:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: [lojban] Re: mi pu fanva le pemci
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Le mercredi 23 octobre 2013 14:57:53 UTC+9, Paul Rapoport a =E9crit :
>
> coi rodo
> .i mi pu fanva le pemci goi ko'a
> .i zoi gy.This is just to say gy. cu cmene ko'a
> .i .e'o ko mencti
>
>
ki'e .i .au so'u da pinka fi mi

=20

> .i tu'e
>
> ju'i do'u mi cusku sa'u le nu
>
> mi puba'o citka
> le so'o zirsmela
> noi nenri
>

(poi nenri)
# I would use {poi} rather than {noi} because I think the clause "that=20
were..." restricts "the plums".
=20

> le bistanxe ku'o
>
>
(le bista'e)
# {bista'e} is shorter. This {ku'o} can be omitted because the following=20
{zi'e} makes clear that the clause terminates here.
=20

> zi'e noi
> la'a do puca'o=20
> ralte=20
>

(jai gau sorcu)
# I think this "saving" means "reserving/storing" rather than "keeping in=
=20
possession". I need {jai gau} for making {do} be x1 of {sorcu}.
=20

> tezu'e cersai
>
>
-> tezu'e lo nu cersai
# Because this {tezu'e} should make a term of the bridi {do puca'o ralte}=
=20
or {do puca'o jai gau sorcu}, it should be followed by a sumti. I would=20
accept {tezu'e lo cersai}; however {tezu'e} takes a goal/result of {zukte},=
=20
and I am not sure how "a mass of breakfast" {lo cersai} can be a=20
goal/result of an action. {lo nu cersai} is better if the goal is=20
"taking breakfast".
=20

> .i .u'ucui ko fraxu le nu la'e go'i
>

-> .i ko mi fraxu
# {fraxu} x2 is a person. {la'e go'i} is not grammatical because {la'e}=20
should be followed by a sumti and {go'i} is a bridi. As a translation of=20
"Forgive me", {ko mi sidju} is necessary and sufficient.
=20

> .i be'unai .oinairo'o da pu kukte
>

-> .i zy pu kukte
# {da pu kukte} is equal to {su'o da zo'u da pu kukte}, which means "there=
=20
is at least one x such that x was delicious", and not suitable here. The=20
pronoun "they" of the original text indicates "the plums", which you=20
translated as {le so'o zirsmela}. This sumti can be represented by {zy}=20
taken from the first letter of {zirsmela}.
=20

> .i titla mutce
> gi'e lenku mutce
>
>
# The last three verses form one sentence beginning with "they"; {kukte},=
=20
{titla mutce} and {lenku mutce} take the same terms {zy} and {pu (ku)}. I=
=20
would translate this part as follows:

{.i zy pu kukte
je titla bo mutce
je lenku bo mutce}
or=20
{.i zy pu ku kukte=20
gi'e titla mutce
gi'e lenku mutce}
=20

> tu'u
>
> re'i mi'e lorxus
>

=20
I recommend you to subscribe to jbofanva mailing list
http://groups.google.com/group/jbofanva
which is private, and you will be able to discuss it without concern in=20
copyright.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>Le mercredi 23 octobre 2013 14:57:53 UTC+9, Paul R=
apoport a =E9crit&nbsp;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: =
0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">coi rodo<br>.i mi pu fanva le pemci goi ko'a<br>.i zoi gy.This i=
s just to say gy. cu cmene ko'a<br>.i .e'o ko mencti<br><br></div></blockqu=
ote><div><br></div><div>ki'e .i .au so'u da&nbsp;pinka fi mi</div><div><br>=
</div><div>&nbsp;<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">.i tu'e<br><br>ju'i do'u mi cusku sa'u le nu<br><br>mi puba'o=
 citka<br>le so'o zirsmela<br>noi nenri<br></div></blockquote><div><br></di=
v><div>(poi nenri)</div><div># I would use {poi} rather than {noi} because =
I think the clause "that were..." restricts "the plums".</div><div>&nbsp;</=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex=
;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">le bistan=
xe ku'o<br><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>(le bista'e)</div><di=
v># {bista'e} is shorter. This {ku'o} can be omitted because the following =
{zi'e} makes clear that the clause terminates here.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bord=
er-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">zi'e noi<br>la=
'a do puca'o <br>ralte <br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>(jai gau =
sorcu)</div><div># I think this "saving" means "reserving/storing" rather t=
han "keeping in possession". I need {jai gau} for making {do} be x1 of {sor=
cu}.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">tezu'e cersai<br><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>-=
&gt; tezu'e lo nu cersai</div><div># Because this {tezu'e} should make a te=
rm of the bridi {do puca'o ralte} or {do puca'o jai gau sorcu}, it should b=
e followed by a sumti. I would accept {tezu'e lo cersai}; however {tezu'e} =
takes a goal/result of {zukte}, and I am not sure how "a mass of breakfast"=
 {lo cersai} can be a goal/result of an action. {lo nu cersai} is better if=
 the goal is "taking&nbsp;breakfast".</div><div>&nbsp;<br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">.i .u'ucui ko fraxu le n=
u la'e go'i<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>-&gt; .i ko mi fraxu<=
/div><div># {fraxu} x2 is a person. {la'e go'i} is not grammatical because =
{la'e} should be followed by a sumti and {go'i} is a bridi. As a translatio=
n of "Forgive me", {ko mi sidju} is necessary and sufficient.</div><div>&nb=
sp;<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-le=
ft: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
.i be'unai .oinairo'o da pu kukte<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div=
>-&gt; .i zy pu kukte</div><div># {da pu kukte} is equal to {su'o da zo'u d=
a pu kukte}, which means "there is at least one x such that x was delicious=
", and not suitable here. The pronoun "they" of the original text indicates=
 "the plums", which you translated as {le so'o zirsmela}. This sumti can be=
 represented by {zy} taken from the first letter of {zirsmela}.</div><div>&=
nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left=
: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">.i=
 titla mutce<br>gi'e lenku mutce<br><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div># The last three verses form one sentence beginning with "they"; {kukte=
}, {titla mutce} and {lenku mutce} take the same terms {zy} and {pu (ku)}. =
I would translate this part as follows:</div><div><br></div><div>{.i zy pu =
kukte</div><div>je titla bo mutce</div><div>je lenku bo mutce}</div><div>or=
&nbsp;</div><div>{.i zy pu ku kukte&nbsp;</div><div>gi'e titla mutce</div><=
div>gi'e lenku mutce}</div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;paddin=
g-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">tu'u<br><br>re'i mi'e lorxus<br></div></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;<br></div><div><div>I recommend you to sub=
scribe to jbofanva mailing list</div><div>http://groups.google.com/group/jb=
ofanva</div><div>which is private, and you will be able to discuss it witho=
ut concern in copyright.</div></div><div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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