Received: from mail-ie0-f191.google.com ([209.85.223.191]:61098) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VZ43N-0001of-Fc for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:25:29 -0700 Received: by mail-ie0-f191.google.com with SMTP id ar20sf261930iec.18 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:25:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=3K9pXQKCAePM5JkOpztVH+Q/NnfAqUkddFVx1r8DP3g=; b=GvJ8exxBxfD9KshaZLBFoQ4ntekXQdqP39FL5gyYZki+dhlazC+mXtcNyeEsGbOrA+ 8TIpsfAoXLot2KFn14H99ZaBvL7mf057+Dvt2wulXe1cHHtL6ITqs9qm/fRZzd46LuQl gkY3w76eE08MHRpSEXKf4gqRe6i5dtO/RrhGx4BqAvEkYLx1r/ECSWU3CiP+BG1oD3g2 3Jh3YbAoKsvIJkmmlJUkfwYQm2pshvJOiXx1ZOc9nKg6qT4OvC++w2gHWzjh16UzPk4j KAXfYl+65FAmXAZKKxGdfrx2IEfQxEbH1kcoQr702C5SOZODon2knhhKw9SIg9eY27x7 VSDw== X-Received: by 10.50.61.200 with SMTP id s8mr130866igr.17.1382556305064; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:25:05 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.114.134 with SMTP id jg6ls954227igb.15.gmail; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:25:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.172.79 with SMTP id ba15mr2063392pac.26.1382556304155; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.147.1 with SMTP id tg1msigb; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:46:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.80.135 with SMTP id r7mr47428obx.12.1382553994157; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:46:33 -0700 (PDT) From: lorxus To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <0535d7f2-1cff-4824-84b6-bf12d6c4ad4c@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <786bdacd-06ac-4ef6-b665-8c9c6e4c1061@googlegroups.com> References: <1de0841c-1bc8-4815-9fc9-56bc6eaef179@googlegroups.com> <6bbae0d7-8b9a-4425-8399-418c87fc5941@googlegroups.com> <786bdacd-06ac-4ef6-b665-8c9c6e4c1061@googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: mi pu fanva le pemci MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: pyrapopo@princeton.edu Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5896_12464562.1382553993654" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 1 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. 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Content preview: mi dragau .i tu'e ju'i do'u mi cusku sa'u le nu [...] Content analysis details: (0.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid ------=_Part_5896_12464562.1382553993654 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mi dragau .i tu'e ju'i do'u mi cusku sa'u le nu mi puba'o citka le so'o zirsmela poi nenri le bistanxe zi'e noi la'a do puca'o ralte tezu'e lo nu cersai .i .u'ucui ko mi fraxu .i be'unai .oinairo'o zy pu kukte .i titla mutce gi'e lenku mutce tu'u On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:48:26 PM UTC-4, pyra...@princeton.edu=20 wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 1:22:58 PM UTC-4, guskant wrote: >> >> >> >> Le mercredi 23 octobre 2013 14:57:53 UTC+9, Paul Rapoport a =E9crit : >>> >>> coi rodo >>> .i mi pu fanva le pemci goi ko'a >>> .i zoi gy.This is just to say gy. cu cmene ko'a >>> .i .e'o ko mencti >>> >>> >> ki'e .i .au so'u da pinka fi mi >> > .y .i ki'a=20 > >> >> =20 >> >>> .i tu'e >>> >>> ju'i do'u mi cusku sa'u le nu >>> >>> mi puba'o citka >>> le so'o zirsmela >>> noi nenri >>> >> >> (poi nenri) >> # I would use {poi} rather than {noi} because I think the clause "that= =20 >> were..." restricts "the plums". >> > .ie=20 > >> =20 >> >>> le bistanxe ku'o >>> >>> >> (le bista'e) >> # {bista'e} is shorter. This {ku'o} can be omitted because the following= =20 >> {zi'e} makes clear that the clause terminates here. >> > mi zbasu troci le zoi gy. calque gy. pe zoi gy. icebox gy. > >> =20 >> >>> zi'e noi >>> la'a do puca'o=20 >>> ralte=20 >>> >> >> (jai gau sorcu) >> # I think this "saving" means "reserving/storing" rather than "keeping i= n=20 >> possession". I need {jai gau} for making {do} be x1 of {sorcu}. >> #But yeah, isn't the idea supposed to be "keeping in possession in the= =20 >> icebox for breakfast"? >> >>> tezu'e cersai >>> >>> >> -> tezu'e lo nu cersai >> # Because this {tezu'e} should make a term of the bridi {do puca'o ralte= }=20 >> or {do puca'o jai gau sorcu}, it should be followed by a sumti. I would= =20 >> accept {tezu'e lo cersai}; however {tezu'e} takes a goal/result of {zukt= e},=20 >> and I am not sure how "a mass of breakfast" {lo cersai} can be a=20 >> goal/result of an action. {lo nu cersai} is better if the goal is=20 >> "taking breakfast". >> > "For the goal of (being) a-mass-of/a-thing-that-is breakfast"? > >> =20 >> >>> .i .u'ucui ko fraxu le nu la'e go'i >>> >> >> -> .i ko mi fraxu >> # {fraxu} x2 is a person. {la'e go'i} is not grammatical because {la'e}= =20 >> should be followed by a sumti and {go'i} is a bridi. As a translation of= =20 >> "Forgive me", {ko mi sidju} is necessary and sufficient. >> #I was trying to convey a sense of "forgive me for my doing the thing I= =20 >> just expressed". Possibly this was not necessary. >> >>> .i be'unai .oinairo'o da pu kukte >>> >> >> -> .i zy pu kukte >> # {da pu kukte} is equal to {su'o da zo'u da pu kukte}, which means=20 >> "there is at least one x such that x was delicious", and not suitable he= re.=20 >> The pronoun "they" of the original text indicates "the plums", which you= =20 >> translated as {le so'o zirsmela}. This sumti can be represented by {zy}= =20 >> taken from the first letter of {zirsmela}. >> #That's a common assumed ko'a bind? Got it.=20 >> > .i titla mutce >>> gi'e lenku mutce >>> >>> >> # The last three verses form one sentence beginning with "they"; {kukte}= ,=20 >> {titla mutce} and {lenku mutce} take the same terms {zy} and {pu (ku)}. = I=20 >> would translate this part as follows: >> # I'd assumed that "They were delicious" was its own sentence. If not,= =20 >> the second one looks better.=20 >> {.i zy pu kukte >> je titla bo mutce >> je lenku bo mutce} >> or=20 >> {.i zy pu ku kukte=20 >> gi'e titla mutce >> gi'e lenku mutce} >> =20 >> >>> tu'u >>> >>> re'i mi'e lorxus >>> >> >> =20 >> I recommend you to subscribe to jbofanva mailing list >> http://groups.google.com/group/jbofanva >> which is private, and you will be able to discuss it without concern in= =20 >> copyright. >> > je'e=20 > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_5896_12464562.1382553993654 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 mi dragau

.i tu'e

ju'i do'u mi cusku s= a'u le nu

mi puba'o citka
le so'o zirsmela
poi nenri
le bis= tanxe

zi'e noi
la'a do puca'o
ralte
tezu'e lo nu cersai
=
.i .u'ucui ko mi fraxu
.i be'unai .oinairo'o zy pu kukte
.i titla= mutce
gi'e lenku mutce

tu'u


On Wednesday, October 23,= 2013 1:48:26 PM UTC-4, pyra...@princeton.edu wrote:


On Wednesday, October 23, 20= 13 1:22:58 PM UTC-4, guskant wrote:


Le mercredi 23 octobre 2013 14:57:53 UTC+9, Paul = Rapoport a =E9crit :
coi rodo
.i mi pu fanva le pemci goi ko'a
.i zoi gy.This is = just to say gy. cu cmene ko'a
.i .e'o ko mencti


ki'e .i .au so'u da pinka fi mi
.y .i ki'a

 
.i tu'e

ju'i do'u mi c= usku sa'u le nu

mi puba'o citka
le so'o zirsmela
noi nenri
=

(poi nenri)
# I would use = {poi} rather than {noi} because I think the clause "that were..." restricts= "the plums".
.ie
 
le bistanxe ku'o


(le bista'e)
# {bista'e} is = shorter. This {ku'o} can be omitted because the following {zi'e} makes clea= r that the clause terminates here.
mi zbasu tr= oci le zoi gy. calque gy. pe zoi gy. icebox gy.
 
zi'e noi
la'a do puca'o=
ralte

(jai gau sorcu)
=
# I think this "saving" means "reserving/storing" rather than "keeping= in possession". I need {jai gau} for making {do} be x1 of {sorcu}.
 #But yeah, isn't the idea supposed to be "keeping in possession in= the icebox for breakfast"?
tezu'e cersai


<= div>-> tezu'e lo nu cersai
# Because this {tezu'e} should make= a term of the bridi {do puca'o ralte} or {do puca'o jai gau sorcu}, it sho= uld be followed by a sumti. I would accept {tezu'e lo cersai}; however {tez= u'e} takes a goal/result of {zukte}, and I am not sure how "a mass of break= fast" {lo cersai} can be a goal/result of an action. {lo nu cersai} is bett= er if the goal is "taking breakfast".
&nb= sp;"For the goal of (being) a-mass-of/a-thing-that-is breakfast"?
=
&nb= sp;
.i .u= 'ucui ko fraxu le nu la'e go'i

-&= gt; .i ko mi fraxu
# {fraxu} x2 is a person. {la'e go'i} is not g= rammatical because {la'e} should be followed by a sumti and {go'i} is a bri= di. As a translation of "Forgive me", {ko mi sidju} is necessary and suffic= ient.
 #I was trying to convey a sense of "forgive me for my= doing the thing I just expressed". Possibly this was not necessary.
.i be'unai .oin= airo'o da pu kukte

-> .i zy pu= kukte
# {da pu kukte} is equal to {su'o da zo'u da pu kukte}, wh= ich means "there is at least one x such that x was delicious", and not suit= able here. The pronoun "they" of the original text indicates "the plums", w= hich you translated as {le so'o zirsmela}. This sumti can be represented by= {zy} taken from the first letter of {zirsmela}.
 #That's a = common assumed ko'a bind? Got it.
.i titla mutce
gi'e lenk= u mutce


# The last three vers= es form one sentence beginning with "they"; {kukte}, {titla mutce} and {len= ku mutce} take the same terms {zy} and {pu (ku)}. I would translate this pa= rt as follows:
 # I'd assumed that "They were delicious" was= its own sentence. If not, the second one looks better.
{.i = zy pu kukte
je titla bo mutce
je lenku bo mutce}
<= div>or 
{.i zy pu ku kukte 
gi'e titla mutce<= /div>
gi'e lenku mutce}
 
tu'u

re'i mi'e lorxus

 
I recommend you to su= bscribe to jbofanva mailing list
which is private, and you will be able to discuss it = without concern in copyright.
je'e
<= /div>

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