Received: from mail-we0-f191.google.com ([74.125.82.191]:64745) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VaoFb-0000qO-8n for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:57:19 -0700 Received: by mail-we0-f191.google.com with SMTP id w62sf785303wes.8 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:56:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=/sd/e1m8jZizA9BkJ1xfWkG8Ud+DjXgUam+Z8RAMbyM=; b=PIUIyThXj/tUUiIGvi1z1jU1XaAu6zfVHmSsdVt8/FMnnFA7ujRiGIJS5nf20brYg4 UAhiQOOHIaszrN/cWffmQ8JzT3DQPdniRbTDPnJs8jPlCWfBIeNWYl4b6OpjNAd3X4QI XwZq/oFEaEmhs9tvoZCSzEaZsAeOwGRxtxy6LckZ+9IvCDkNhLGndbO6BGgekV/mfMoD QNHXM4ADbjZ9qAUwQ0unKy4h8P/TTnITHWYkzMdWPYAoi2+zS9vRu3V4FX79+YUZD0M+ lCwVY3pMTrvHfxyiCWDxbMOwm8+FNPsiUHaEcudMCRXnna3q4TYOA5MoqZsEaOxmkDvW SN7g== X-Received: by 10.180.82.37 with SMTP id f5mr76201wiy.5.1382972215196; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:56:55 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.182.193 with SMTP id eg1ls198907wic.19.gmail; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:56:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.14.251.134 with SMTP id b6mr8153262ees.2.1382972214431; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x232.google.com (mail-we0-x232.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c03::232]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fr8si315464wic.1.2013.10.28.07.56.54 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c03::232 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c03::232; Received: by mail-we0-x232.google.com with SMTP id q59so6605504wes.37 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:56:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.231.6 with SMTP id tc6mr9514865wic.59.1382972214326; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.232.133 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.232.133 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:56:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <82e3500a-a054-43bd-bf9e-9c0e3162d39b@googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:56:54 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Officialness, spin-off projects, dialects, communication with the outside world (was: Re: LMW reloaded (lojbo uitki)) From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c03::232 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134d1ba91bd2f04e9ce4f0f X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --001a1134d1ba91bd2f04e9ce4f0f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Media wiki "promotes" lojban just like the old wiki. See zasni gerna page for instance On Oct 28, 2013 6:51 PM, "iesk" wrote: > The MediaWiki ('LMW') at lojban.org seems to imply that what I thought is > 'official Lojban' is outdated, and to promote a slightly different langua= ge > under the provisional name of La Bangu: > =96 http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Obsolete:_joiku (note the 'obsolete') > =96 http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Stub:_La_Bangu > =96 http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Stub:_Is_Lojban_an_auxlang ('Lojban ha= d > 6 words for "and" [=85]' =85 it does still, doesn=92t it?) > > So, just to get a clear picture: > > What is the language promoted by the LLG ('official Lojban')? > > I *think* it is > http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter21.html, and > the rest of CLL, superseded only by confirmed errata, and Xorlo. So, eg, > {lo broda ku joi lo brode} needs the {ku}, and {mi .e do broda} is not > equivalent to *{mi je do broda}. > > What is the MediaWiki about? > > I *thought* it was just a supposedly user-friendlier copy and continuatio= n > of the TikiWiki. So, while (as a wiki) chaotic, still (as a part of > lojban.org) about (the agreed-upon, ie 'official' version of) Lojban. (By > the way, I do find the MediaWiki easier to use [well, I try to ignore som= e > of the scarier add-ons recently installed], and I am thankful to Gleki fo= r > putting so much work into it.) > > If, however, the MediaWiki is about a different (version of the) language= , > then we should perhaps put a big sign somewhere explaining that what > follows, however more brilliant than 'official Lojban' it may be, is not > the same thing as the language promoted on the rest of lojban.org. Just > to not confuse the casual reader. (While I have nothing against playing > around with dialects, variations in grammar and such=97a living language > Lojban shall be=97, I find it particularly confusing to call the 'prestig= e > dialect' _obsolete_ or _outdated._) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --001a1134d1ba91bd2f04e9ce4f0f Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Media wiki "promotes" lojban just like the old wik= i.=A0 See zasni gerna page for instance

On Oct 28, 2013 6:51 PM, "iesk" <pa.fae@gmx.de> wrote:
The MediaWiki ('LMW') at lojban.org seems to imply that what I thought is= 'official Lojban' is outdated, and to promote a slightly different= language under the provisional name of La Bangu:
=96 http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Obsolete:_joiku (note the 'obs= olete')
=96 http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Stub:_La_Bangu
=96 http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Stub:_Is_Lojban_an_auxlang<= /a> ('Lojban had 6 words for "and" [=85]' =85 it does sti= ll, doesn=92t it?)

So, just to get a clear picture:

What is the language promoted = by the LLG ('official Lojban')?

I *think* it is http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter21.= html, and the rest of CLL, superseded only by confirmed errata, and Xor= lo. So, eg, {lo broda ku joi lo brode} needs the {ku}, and {mi .e do broda}= is not equivalent to *{mi je do broda}.

What is the MediaWiki about?

I *thought* it was just a supposedl= y user-friendlier copy and continuation of the TikiWiki. So, while (as a wi= ki) chaotic, still (as a part of lojban.org) about (the agreed-upon, ie 'official' version= of) Lojban. (By the way, I do find the MediaWiki easier to use [well, I tr= y to ignore some of the scarier add-ons recently installed], and I am thank= ful to Gleki for putting so much work into it.)

If, however, the MediaWiki is about a different (version of the) langua= ge, then we should perhaps put a big sign somewhere explaining that what fo= llows, however more brilliant than 'official Lojban' it may be, is = not the same thing as the language promoted on the rest of lojban.org. Just to not confuse the cas= ual reader. (While I have nothing against playing around with dialects, var= iations in grammar and such=97a living language Lojban shall be=97, I find = it particularly confusing to call the 'prestige dialect' _obsolete_= or _outdated._)

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
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