Received: from mail-bk0-f64.google.com ([209.85.214.64]:53311) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Vc6rg-0004Az-8Z for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:01:56 -0700 Received: by mail-bk0-f64.google.com with SMTP id na10sf394186bkb.29 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:01:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=DW71uUOCLmn656wtU+qt1lZBIr1MPuxJ0mTvPaM0EwM=; b=mJfJjkf0OxHt6r+K5tbLtG5Y7zPt43f085zIv5b9M978j4Aq9BiGNE8x6K1iXU1V8H JmOFklQHHClJYM0BoOhRLu8qSZUKj8FpC2A9la3+EI9Oe6KzZn0UJH4QUpimltHq1DYJ FbNiPDXZJDE1kdHZSABxVNTwiOiEUl5Lc1494yavGQGQ+TkhlOXgpTdXvKmvtNy0JYuJ ZUwrzZrOcu3baATkoIjVeEqxEqtN+mu9wTdrKXcdoOtRhX0YScKbkII67zSUbfhiUz+a UENPv0pgZhkxDy8TUEPtbgvtAxmlwzqZinRKw9WvvducWg1hf1/HgCdX9pAwVVFetK4H MrJw== X-Received: by 10.152.36.9 with SMTP id m9mr10945laj.13.1383282096829; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:01:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.36.137 with SMTP id q9ls291674laj.62.gmail; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:01:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.234.163 with SMTP id uf3mr467246lbc.14.1383282096086; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x22e.google.com (mail-we0-x22e.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c03::22e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s6si37494wiw.2.2013.10.31.22.01.36 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c03::22e as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c03::22e; Received: by mail-we0-f174.google.com with SMTP id u56so3577827wes.33 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:01:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.231.6 with SMTP id tc6mr981918wic.59.1383282095965; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.41.165 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:01:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <82e3500a-a054-43bd-bf9e-9c0e3162d39b@googlegroups.com> Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 09:01:35 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Officialness, spin-off projects, dialects, communication with the outside world (was: Re: LMW reloaded (lojbo uitki)) From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c03::22e as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134d1baf44f4604ea1675a3 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --001a1134d1baf44f4604ea1675a3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > LMW, (IMHO) is Gleki's personal plaything. I personally give it no > imprimatur of officialdom. YMMV > > (OTOH, plenty of pages on the old tiki talk about experimental) ideas, > but are (for the most part) plainly labelled as nonofficial.) > How are they labelled, a'u? > > --gejyspa > > > > On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 10:51 AM, iesk wrote: > >> The MediaWiki ('LMW') at lojban.org seems to imply that what I thought >> is 'official Lojban' is outdated, and to promote a slightly different >> language under the provisional name of La Bangu: >> =96 http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Obsolete:_joiku (note the 'obsolete') >> =96 http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Stub:_La_Bangu >> =96 http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Stub:_Is_Lojban_an_auxlang ('Lojban h= ad >> 6 words for "and" [=85]' =85 it does still, doesn=92t it?) >> >> So, just to get a clear picture: >> >> What is the language promoted by the LLG ('official Lojban')? >> >> I *think* it is >> http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter21.html, and >> the rest of CLL, superseded only by confirmed errata, and Xorlo. So, eg, >> {lo broda ku joi lo brode} needs the {ku}, and {mi .e do broda} is not >> equivalent to *{mi je do broda}. >> >> What is the MediaWiki about? >> >> I *thought* it was just a supposedly user-friendlier copy and >> continuation of the TikiWiki. So, while (as a wiki) chaotic, still (as a >> part of lojban.org) about (the agreed-upon, ie 'official' version of) >> Lojban. (By the way, I do find the MediaWiki easier to use [well, I try = to >> ignore some of the scarier add-ons recently installed], and I am thankfu= l >> to Gleki for putting so much work into it.) >> >> If, however, the MediaWiki is about a different (version of the) >> language, then we should perhaps put a big sign somewhere explaining tha= t >> what follows, however more brilliant than 'official Lojban' it may be, i= s >> not the same thing as the language promoted on the rest of lojban.org. >> Just to not confuse the casual reader. (While I have nothing against >> playing around with dialects, variations in grammar and such=97a living >> language Lojban shall be=97, I find it particularly confusing to call th= e >> 'prestige dialect' _obsolete_ or _outdated._) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --001a1134d1baf44f4604ea1675a3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturnians= ky@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0 LMW, (IMHO) is Gleki= 9;s personal plaything. =A0I personally give it no imprimatur of officialdo= m. =A0YMMV

=A0 (OTOH, plenty of pages on the old tiki talk about experi= mental) ideas, but are (for the most part) plainly labelled as nonofficial.= )

How are they labelled, a'= u?
=A0

=A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa



On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 10:51 AM, iesk <pa.fae@gmx.de&= gt; wrote:
The MediaWiki ('LMW'= ;) at lojban.org seems = to imply that what I thought is 'official Lojban' is outdated, and = to promote a slightly different language under the provisional name of La B= angu:
=96 http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Obsolete:_joiku (note the 'obs= olete')
=96 http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Stub:_La_Bangu
=96 http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Stub:_Is_Lojban_an_auxlang<= /a> ('Lojban had 6 words for "and" [=85]' =85 it does sti= ll, doesn=92t it?)

So, just to get a clear picture:

What is the language promoted = by the LLG ('official Lojban')?

I *think* it is http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/chapter21.= html, and the rest of CLL, superseded only by confirmed errata, and Xor= lo. So, eg, {lo broda ku joi lo brode} needs the {ku}, and {mi .e do broda}= is not equivalent to *{mi je do broda}.

What is the MediaWiki about?

I *thought* it was just a supposedl= y user-friendlier copy and continuation of the TikiWiki. So, while (as a wi= ki) chaotic, still (as a part of lojban.org) about (the agreed-upon, ie 'official' version= of) Lojban. (By the way, I do find the MediaWiki easier to use [well, I tr= y to ignore some of the scarier add-ons recently installed], and I am thank= ful to Gleki for putting so much work into it.)

If, however, the MediaWiki is about a different (version of the) langua= ge, then we should perhaps put a big sign somewhere explaining that what fo= llows, however more brilliant than 'official Lojban' it may be, is = not the same thing as the language promoted on the rest of lojban.org. Just to not confuse the cas= ual reader. (While I have nothing against playing around with dialects, var= iations in grammar and such=97a living language Lojban shall be=97, I find = it particularly confusing to call the 'prestige dialect' _obsolete_= or _outdated._)

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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