Received: from mail-pa0-f60.google.com ([209.85.220.60]:46255) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VfLFm-0002SR-P7 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2013 19:00:08 -0800 Received: by mail-pa0-f60.google.com with SMTP id ld10sf687746pab.15 for ; Sat, 09 Nov 2013 18:59:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-transfer-encoding :content-type; bh=QIK3ZqNPg6einhFDFRFP+LilnmzqSZJ+yZSD5qzX2lw=; b=NpUughGy5g1GLBMii5UjhJO+PbFme3+f/u0XzlS3mfEQfDhsS34NDpEP3qRa6TEYzA mmaUeJYUi50PLNeuGYzu5m3yHb/qcJ6H4yldcsmKXsmMo4A2o7SeSY6WJD4FbNOGr2wN Kf53d1b9bQRarv9GwtZbPgCRpv8gLbJd5yrcEKnc04H8wsbjTMTvRjphPr4y2mqMPNp3 v1CYfBW/Z7CLLdApvrq8HZwmtPqZiO3qpZiIRNBgvEOLCGPjjr59scZ0TgSIk6zwXYS8 F7yzPDkoMMv8pQlUUaWeLfwh3OSkMb6D3QIVc0VMXx5ZewjQvZj092tWIz0W+u+cvVFX W8tA== X-Received: by 10.49.48.68 with SMTP id j4mr1324qen.13.1384052392261; Sat, 09 Nov 2013 18:59:52 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.95.161 with SMTP id dl1ls2085892qeb.60.gmail; Sat, 09 Nov 2013 18:59:51 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.224.24.65 with SMTP id u1mr14419423qab.6.1384052391579; Sat, 09 Nov 2013 18:59:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com. [75.180.132.120]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id r18si1876313vds.2.2013.11.09.18.59.51 for ; Sat, 09 Nov 2013 18:59:51 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.120 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@bezitopo.org) client-ip=75.180.132.120; X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=dYICLAre c=1 sm=0 a=KmP4ZOwKm5YcYw8SyABlNg==:17 a=o7a0oRqgbeIA:10 a=9vtHyF5Id5kA:10 a=Yr05hP5UdKEA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=JNFw9bs7AAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=YYNLDqMAAAAA:8 a=uKM2czaJAAAA:8 a=e8EdoRKLgaQfy1biLikA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=KmP4ZOwKm5YcYw8SyABlNg==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Authenticated-User: X-Originating-IP: 75.176.125.77 Received: from [75.176.125.77] ([75.176.125.77:63025] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id C8/7D-00722-2A6FE725; Sun, 10 Nov 2013 02:59:51 +0000 Received: from caracal.localnet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5A412AB0A for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2013 21:59:42 -0500 (EST) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: [lojban] zo ki'a .e zo .y Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2013 21:59:42 -0500 Message-ID: <41945556.K24Vi7DFVt@caracal> User-Agent: KMail/4.8.5 (Linux/3.2.0-54-generic; KDE/4.8.5; x86_64; ; ) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: phma@bezitopo.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.120 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@bezitopo.org) smtp.mail=phma@bezitopo.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / http://huh.ideophone.org/ http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0078273 An article appeared a few days ago comparing interjections used for other- initiated repair in various languages. All the languages they looked at hav= e a=20 word consisting of a null, glottal stop, or glottal fricative onset followe= d=20 by a low-to-mid front-to-central unrounded vowel with a questioning=20 intonation. Lojban words do not begin with a glottal fricative (it's found only between= =20 vowels), but some words begin with a glottal stop (which is not distinct fr= om=20 null at the beginning of an utterance). Of the one-syllable words beginning= =20 with a glottal stop, four are conjunctions, one (which is high) is the=20 sentence separator, and the remaining one (which fits the pattern) is the= =20 hesitation word. A glance at Wiktionary suggests that a majority of languages have a hesitat= ion=20 word which fits a pattern: English "er" and "uh" (the latter sounds just li= ke=20 Lojban "y"), French "euh" (not listed but it's one of my languages), Greek= =20 "=CE=B5", Danish "=C3=B8h", etc. The pattern is different from the OIR word= ("euh" is=20 rounded, whereas "hein" isn't), but they overlap. Our OIR words are "ki'a" and "ke'o". The second syllable of "ki'a" does fit= the=20 pattern for OIR words, but the fact that it has two syllables does not. I= =20 suggest that "ki'a", when said by itself, should be stressed on the "a" wit= h a=20 questioning intonation (whatever that is) so that it's closer to the patter= n=20 for OIR words. "ki'anai" should be stressed on the first or third syllable,= and=20 "moki'a" and "maki'a" can be stressed however you want, as the listener=20 already knows when the "ki'a" starts that it's not a bare "ki'a". Pierre --=20 The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.