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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 10:04:40 -0500
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Subject: Re: [lojban] An Interesting Use for a Rafsi
From: Craig Daniel <craigbdaniel@gmail.com>
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On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 2:20 AM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think the position of "na" is relevant here.
> When someone says "I don't like cats", he usually means "I dislike cats".
>
> I like cats vs. I don't like cats (but I don't dislike them, either) vs. I
> dislike cats.
>
> English speakers typically don't consider the middle, non-committal option.
> Instead, they interpret "don't X" as "do opposite-of-X".
>
> Is this the "na'e" vs. "na" distinction of Lojban?

Not quite - I believe if I understand what you're describing right,
it's the no'e vs. to'e distinction. no'e means "not X, but not
opposite-of-X either", while to'e means "opposite-of-X". na'e is "not
X" but is not obviously also not "opposite-of-X". Those are all in
NAhE, and together with je'a (the affirmative one) they are the entire
set of brivla negators. na is a negator of an entire bridi; I believe
it to be somewhat underspecified in the same way as na'e, but I could
be misremembering.

So:

mi (je'a) djica lo nu ko'a (je'a) broda - I do want ko'a to broda
mi no'e djica lo nu ko'a broda - I don't have strong wishes about
whether any broda happens
mi to'e djica lo nu ko'a broda - I want the event of ko'a broda-ing
not to happen
mi na'e djica lo nu ko'a broda - I don't particularly want ko'a to
broda, and may or may not have strong feelings about the alternative
mi na djica lo nu ko'a broda - It isn't the case that I want ko'a to
broda, and may or may not have strong feelings about the alternative
mi djica lo nu ko'a no'e broda - I want ko'a to do something that
isn't particularly broda-ish but maybe kind of is
mi djica lo nu ko'a to'e broda - I want ko'a to do the opposite of broda-ing
mi djica lo nu ko'a na'e broda - I want ko'a to do some alternative to
fully broda-ing
mi djica lo nu ko'a na broda - I want ko'a not to broda (note that
"ko'a broda" is a bridi nested within the main one, and the entire
subordinate bridi is negated rather than just the word "broda")

These are all logically distinct, even if in practice many of them
will have matching semantics.

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