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Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 09:12:54 +0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] An Interesting Use for a Rafsi
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Cyril Slobin <cyril@slobin.pp.ru> wrote:

> >> In Esperanto, e.g., it's obvious which is meant: "ne devas iri" vs.
> "devas ne iri";
> >> Russian (i.a.) shares this, I believe.
>
> Alas Russian shares the problem with English: "=CE=C5 =C4=CF=CC=D6=C5=CE =
=C9=C4=D4=C9" *is*
> ambiguous.


ambiguous or vague?


> If you must be clear with the first meaning, you just
> change the verb from "=C4=CF=CC=D6=C5=CE" (must) to "=CF=C2=D1=DA=C1=CE" =
(obliged). "=CE=C5 =CF=C2=D1=DA=C1=CE
> =C9=C4=D4=C9" is absolutely clear the first meaning, not second.
>
> On the other hand, "=C4=CF=CC=D6=C5=CE =CE=C5 =C9=C4=D4=C9" has clear sec=
ond meaning, but is,
> strictly speaking, illiterate. This form is used mainly by people that
> know some programming language, and can be considered as a hack
> speech.
>
> In normal literate text, without weird logical assumptions, the
> average reader would most likely understand "=CE=C5 =C4=CF=CC=D6=C5=CE =
=C9=C4=D4=C9" in a
> second meaning.
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Cyril Slobin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:cyril@slobin.pp.ru" target=3D"_blank">cyril@slobin.pp.ru<=
/a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">&gt;&gt; In Esperanto, e.g=
., it&#39;s obvious which is meant: &quot;ne devas iri&quot; vs. &quot;deva=
s ne iri&quot;;<br>

&gt;&gt; Russian (i.a.) shares this, I believe.<br>
<br>
</div>Alas Russian shares the problem with English: &quot;=CE=C5 =C4=CF=CC=
=D6=C5=CE =C9=C4=D4=C9&quot; *is*<br>
ambiguous.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>ambiguous or vague?</div><div>=
=9A</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> If you must be clear with the firs=
t meaning, you just<br>

change the verb from &quot;=C4=CF=CC=D6=C5=CE&quot; (must) to &quot;=CF=C2=
=D1=DA=C1=CE&quot; (obliged). &quot;=CE=C5 =CF=C2=D1=DA=C1=CE<br>
=C9=C4=D4=C9&quot; is absolutely clear the first meaning, not second.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, &quot;=C4=CF=CC=D6=C5=CE =CE=C5 =C9=C4=D4=C9&quot; has c=
lear second meaning, but is,<br>
strictly speaking, illiterate. This form is used mainly by people that<br>
know some programming language, and can be considered as a hack<br>
speech.<br>
<br>
In normal literate text, without weird logical assumptions, the<br>
average reader would most likely understand &quot;=CE=C5 =C4=CF=CC=D6=C5=CE=
 =C9=C4=D4=C9&quot; in a<br>
second meaning.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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