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From: Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 21:44:45 -0500
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Confused about Abstractions
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On 6 December 2013 21:23, <wolf.finster@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for your answers. Though now I wonder, why repeatedly embedding
>> bridi into each other does not give the same semantic result as tanru or
>> relative clauses do.
>>
>
> Why would something like 'lo lo lo gerku ku barda ku bunre ku batci ' not
> mean '[[[something is a dog] is big] is brown] bites'?
>

It doesn't mean that. It means "a brown thing [related-to a big thing
[related-to a dog]]", which pretty much nonsense in a neutral context. The
embedded sumti in cases like {lo ko'a broda} is equivalent to {lo broda pe
ko'a}; this construct serves to restrict the referent scope of the main
sumti, i.e. {lo broda} in this case. You seem to think that the inner sumti
is used to construct a relative cause, but relative clauses are constructed
with the words "poi" and "noi" (and "voi", for those who use it.) Unless
you use one of those two (three) words, then you are not constructing a
relative clause in Lojban.

Now, it turns out that some tanru are very semantically close to a similar
construction involving a relative clause. This turns out to parallel
English (among other languages).

e.g. the brown dog <-> the dog which is brown
---- lo bunre gerku <-> lo gerku noi bunre

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On 6 December 2013 21:23,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:wolf.finster@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">wolf.finster@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin=
-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">T=
hank you for your answers. Though now I wonder, why repeatedly embedding br=
idi into each other does not give the same semantic result as tanru or rela=
tive clauses do.=A0<br>

</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Why would something like &#39;lo lo =
lo gerku ku barda ku bunre ku batci &#39; not mean &#39;[[[something is a d=
og] is big] is brown] bites&#39;? </div></div></blockquote><div><br>It does=
n&#39;t mean that. It means &quot;a brown thing [related-to a big thing [re=
lated-to a dog]]&quot;, which pretty much nonsense in a neutral context. Th=
e embedded sumti in cases like {lo ko&#39;a broda} is equivalent to {lo bro=
da pe ko&#39;a}; this construct serves to restrict the referent scope of th=
e main sumti, i.e. {lo broda} in this case. You seem to think that the inne=
r sumti is used to construct a relative cause, but relative clauses are con=
structed with the words &quot;poi&quot; and &quot;noi&quot; (and &quot;voi&=
quot;, for those who use it.) Unless you use one of those two (three) words=
, then you are not constructing a relative clause in Lojban.<br>

<br>Now, it turns out that some tanru are very semantically close to a simi=
lar construction involving a relative clause. This turns out to parallel En=
glish (among other languages).<br><br>e.g. the brown dog &lt;-&gt; the dog =
which is brown<br>

---- lo bunre gerku &lt;-&gt; lo gerku noi bunre<br><br>.i mi&#39;e la tsan=
i mu&#39;o<br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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