Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.139.213.126 as permitted sender) client-ip=98.139.213.126;
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Confused about Abstractions
References: <a0f5d5a3-a2ef-4646-953e-6f4bc30f907b@googlegroups.com> <0d54d567-b571-49b3-ac9c-4f8f990f75ec@googlegroups.com>
From: "John E. Clifford" <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <0d54d567-b571-49b3-ac9c-4f8f990f75ec@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <C286080F-DC56-4DDC-AFF6-DBD27ACAC865@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 22:27:42 -0600
To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary=Apple-Mail-78A0EAA2-0AC9-4309-A4E2-201DB6065B62
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam_score: 1.0
X-Spam_score_int: 10
X-Spam_bar: +
X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has
 identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
 has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label
 similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
 the administrator of that system for details.
 
 Content preview:  Strictly, the first slot of a lo ku expression is already
   filled by lo, a logically complex item, which includes, logically, a sumti.
    So, you don't get a nest of higher bridi, just another sumti floating around
    with no place to go. CLL gives an interpretation for these anomalous forms,
    but they are not strictly logical (or loosely so either, just conventional).
    [...] 
 
 Content analysis details:   (1.0 points, 5.0 required)
 
  pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
  0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM          Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
                             (kali9putra[at]yahoo.com)
  0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED   No valid author signature, adsp_override is
                             CUSTOM_MED
 -0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
  1.0 FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD      'From' yahoo.com does not match 'Received' headers
  0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED          ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked.
                             See
                             http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block
                              for more information.
                             [URIs: googlegroups.com]
  0.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
  0.1 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid
 -0.1 DKIM_VALID             Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature

--Apple-Mail-78A0EAA2-0AC9-4309-A4E2-201DB6065B62
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Strictly, the first slot of a lo ku expression is already filled by lo, a l=
ogically complex item, which includes, logically, a sumti.  So, you don't g=
et a nest of higher bridi, just another sumti floating around with no place=
 to go.  CLL gives an interpretation for these anomalous forms, but they ar=
e not strictly logical (or loosely so either, just conventional).

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 6, 2013, at 20:53, wolf.finster@gmail.com wrote:

>=20
> Hm, I do understand that you do not make relative clauses like that, beca=
use embedding bridi into each other like this does not give you the desired=
 meaning. But I do not understand _why_ that is so. What about the semantic=
s of lo ku and embedding bridi into each other does not yield you this mean=
ing? After all, you place the sumti into the first slot of each higher leve=
l selbri wich itels becomes a complex sumti, which should give you the desi=
red meaning on each level recursively, as the meaning of lower levels get e=
nriched by the next higher levels in a recursive fashion. Why is that not t=
he case?
> --=20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
 "lojban" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an=
 email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--Apple-Mail-78A0EAA2-0AC9-4309-A4E2-201DB6065B62
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>Strictly, the first slot =
of a lo ku expression is already filled by lo, a logically complex item, wh=
ich includes, logically, a sumti. &nbsp;So, you don't get a nest&nbsp;<span=
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, =
26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.23=
0469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">of =
higher bridi, just another sumti floating around with no place to go. &nbsp=
;CLL gives an interpretation for these anomalous forms, but they are not st=
rictly logical (or loosely so either, just conventional).</span></div><div>=
<br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Dec 6, 2013, at 20:53, <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:wolf.finster@gmail.com">wolf.finster@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br><br></div=
><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><p lang=3D"en-US" style=
=3D"margin-bottom:0cm">Hm, I do understand that you do not make relative cl=
auses like that, because embedding bridi into each other like this does not=
 give you the desired meaning. But I do not understand _why_ that is so. Wh=
at about the semantics of lo ku and embedding bridi into each other does no=
t yield you this meaning? After all, you place the sumti into the first slo=
t of each higher level selbri wich itels becomes a complex sumti, which sho=
uld give you the desired meaning on each level recursively, as the meaning =
of lower levels get enriched by the next higher levels in a recursive fashi=
on. Why is that not the case?
</p></div></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsub=
scribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban">http:=
//groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br>
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br>
</div></blockquote></body></html>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban">http:=
//groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out=
">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br />

--Apple-Mail-78A0EAA2-0AC9-4309-A4E2-201DB6065B62--