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[64.12.143.78]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t9si136136qcn.2.2013.12.07.01.09.25 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 07 Dec 2013 01:09:25 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of almikes@aol.com designates 64.12.143.78 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.12.143.78; Received: from mtaout-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.6]) by omr-m04.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id ABDBD700000A6 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2013 04:09:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (p549F9A32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.159.154.50]) by mtaout-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id F3598E0000B2 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 2013 04:09:24 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 10:09:21 +0100 From: Wuzzy To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Alice essay Message-ID: <20131207100921.6c228533@aol.com> In-Reply-To: References: <529EA55C.40800@kli.org> <20131204145028.65d8aa5f@aol.com> <20131206074058.524db1e8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d290652a2e5c42857 X-AOL-IP: 84.159.154.50 X-Original-Sender: almikes@aol.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of almikes@aol.com designates 64.12.143.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=almikes@aol.com; dkim=neutral (bad format) header.i=@mx.aol.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.6 X-Spam_score_int: -5 X-Spam_bar: / > Who stops you from entering them? There is even {lonu} in jbovlaste > with comments for absolute noobs of what it means. Nobody. But I won=92t enter them because I didn=92t coin them. Only the authors of those words could know the sense they meant. If I enter the words, it could be in a different sense than in the text and then the dictionary sense would differ from the alis sense.=20 That=92s why I said it would be better to first write the definition of a lujvo and then to use it; not vice-versa. If one first coins a lujvo but doesn=92t define it and immediately uses it, this lujvo is always in danger of being in inconsistent use. Sooner or later it would happen. Authors of other texts may have coined the same lujvo in an ad-hoc way, but in a different sense. If this happens, the same lujvo has de-facto different definitions. Writing a definition in the dictionary _after_ that happened is dangerous and *will* render some texts =93wrong=94 (de jure). That=92s why = I won=92t write the definition, because it just increases the risk of inconsistency. Only the authors could possibly know what they actually meant. This situation can not happen if one doesn=92t use lujvo which nobody has defined before. Lujvo are intended to have a *single* definition. If one doesn=92t want to write a definition, there=92s always a fallback option with =93za'e=94 = or a tanru instead. So if the authors are not willing to write definitions of their own words, all they=92d have to do is to convert the lujvo in question to tanru or to =93za'e=94 them out. The =93za'e=94 approach has a = big benefit, if one of the authors decided to write down a definition of the word in the sense it was used in the alis text, the =93za'e=94 of the lujvo in question can be removed. =93za'e=94 would also work for fu'ivla. There was an argument against =93za'e=94 because it is considered ugly. I consider this argument a rather weak one. My point was about clariy, not beauty. ;-) And what does =93lonu=94 have to do with this? I am only talking about lujv= o and fu'ivla, not about cmavo clusters. --=20 Wuzzy XMPP: Wuzzy2@jabber.ccc.de E-Mail: wuzzy2@mail.ru --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.