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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 13:12:00 +0100
From: Wuzzy <almikes@aol.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Alice essay
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On Fri, 6 Dec 2013 09:44:15 -0500
Alex Rozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.com> wrote:
> > - =93KREFU=94 is still used and still wrong=97wheather I am a nitpicker=
 or
> > not. This has nothing to do with alternative orthographies, since
> > the text uses the standard alphabet. And the word is in all-caps
> > for no apparent reason. What does =93KREFU=94, in contrast of =93krefu=
=94,
> > even mean?
> >
>=20
> In this case {KREFU} is supposed to be a metalinguistic comment; the
> fact that it is strangely written makes that more clear than if it
> had been written {krefu}.
Well, is this some new unwritten rule that all-caps text in Lojban
means =93metalinguistic comment=94? I think Lojban already has words wor
that (=93sei=94 and =93to'o=94 iirc), so I don=92t see what this rule
adds to Lojban.

Also, how is the reader who is unaware of this rule supposed
to know this? Guessing? I did not know this rule and I also coudln=92t
guess the purpose.

There is also =93KO MI PINXE=94. This has an entirely different
=93justification=94 which does make even less sense to me. I refuted those
=93justifications=94 in a respone to xorxes.
> > - =93lu=94=85=93li'u=94 still missing. Damning or not, not using the qu=
otes
> > changes the sense of the sentences. Try to read the text aloud,
> > maybe you=92ll see (or hear) the problem here. Indentation other other
> > typographic conventions should never replace words in Lojban.
> >
>=20
> While I would have used quotes there, but I'm not going to argue with
> xorxes when it comes to stylistic choices.
How can this be a matter of style? In my eyes it is simply wrong to
omit quotes where quotes actually belong to.
If you read the text to someone aloud the listener doesn=92t hear the
indentation and therefore doesn=92t hear the quotes which are not there.
Since in spoken form, the length of pauses and intonation is
meaningless in Lojban, it is impossible to know that quotes belong here.
The resulting text has either a different sense or becomes
ungrammatical.
And as a =93style issue=94 (which it isn=92t) it is not even used
consistently. The other indentations use quotes but this section
doesn=92t. Why this inconsistence?

> Also, it's overreaching to say that typographical conventions should
> _never_ replace words; think of a webpage with sidebars and menus, for
> example. A more compelling statement would be that they should never
> replace words in straight-line text, which one could easily argue
> this is (were the song in a LaTeX figure, for example, it would be
> harder to argue).
Okay, that=92s right. On the other hand, translating interfaces of any
kind into Lojban is another beast. There a lot of open questions
and clearly some kind of convention has to arise at some day. But it
would be an interesting and challenging beast. ;-)

--=20
Wuzzy
XMPP: Wuzzy2@jabber.ccc.de
E-Mail: wuzzy2@mail.ru

--=20
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