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Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 16:10:16 -0200
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Subject: Re: [lojban] spamikce
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>
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I guess Pierre was exactly proposing a discussion in order to write the
definitions.

Of course, one thing that may be used to disambiguate such cases is to
symmetrize the lujvo, giving
something as
{spaselmikce} vs. {spavelmikce}, or
{selkemspaselmikce} vs. {velkemspavelmikce}.

It is very understandable, however, that such an obfuscated construction be
avoided.

I liked gejyspa's idea a lot. Being it so concise, I even considered not
defining spamikce at all.

In any case, I give my considerations for choosing a definition.

"Herbalist" is, to me, a more relevant concept than "doctor of plants" (it
would be interesting to investigate if there is a special word for "doctor
of plants" in some language). Nevertheless, I vote for s1=3Dm2.

Firstly because I think it is a nice principle to prefer identification in
the first places of the brivla rather than in the last ones. Ultimately
because I don't think s1=3Dm4 is a perfect identity, instead involving sumt=
i
raising of s1, inevitably leading to the concept of spapli. Marginally
because I prefer killing the seemingly redundant {spabi'amikce} rather than
the more natural {spaplimikce} ({spabi'amikce} suggests {spaselmicmikce}).

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.


On 8 December 2013 05:21, Wuzzy <almikes@aol.com> wrote:

> Am Sat, 07 Dec 2013 20:40:34 -0500
> schrieb Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>:
>
> > Does this mean a doctor who treats plants (s1=3Dm2) or a herbalist
> > (s1=3Dm4)?
> This can=92t be answered until someone wrote a definition for =93spamikce=
=94.
>
> > What's the word for the other?
> As far I know there is no word for both concepts yet.
>
> At the moment,
> =93spamikce=94 not more meaningful to me than its veljvo =93spati mikce=
=94.
> We know that this must be a doctor who has *something* to do with
> plants. The =93*something*=94 is unspecified.
> This is because nobody bothered to write down a definition of =93spamikce=
=94
> to pin down
> a) the place structure and
> b) that =93*something*=94.
>
> As long as there is no such definition, I=92d avoid the term in
> written text and either use the veljvo =93spati mikce=94 or declare it a
> nonce word with =93za'e=94 instead.
>
> To choose a good definition for =93spamikce=94 is to find the most obviou=
s
> =93*something*=94 one can think of. In this case, I am not sure which of =
the
> both definitions you suggested may be more obvious.
>
> I generally agree with gejyspa, but the suggested terms are also of
> course not defined yet.
>
> If anyone would bother to write one or more good definitions, I=92d
> happily add them to jbovlaste for you (if you don=92t add the definitions
> by yourselves, of course). :-)
>
>
> --
> Wuzzy
> XMPP: Wuzzy2@jabber.ccc.de
> E-Mail: wuzzy2@mail.ru
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I guess Pierre was exactly proposing a discussion in =
order to write the definitions.<br><br>Of course, one thing that may be use=
d to disambiguate such cases is to symmetrize the lujvo, giving<br>somethin=
g as<br>
</div><div>{spaselmikce} vs. {spavelmikce}, or<br></div><div>{selkemspaselm=
ikce} vs. {velkemspavelmikce}.<br><br></div><div>It is very understandable,=
 however, that such an obfuscated construction be avoided.<br><br></div>
<div>I liked gejyspa&#39;s idea a lot. Being it so concise, I even consider=
ed not defining spamikce at all.<br><br></div><div>In any case, I give my c=
onsiderations for choosing a definition.<br><br>&quot;Herbalist&quot; is, t=
o me, a more relevant concept than &quot;doctor of plants&quot; (it would b=
e interesting to investigate if there is a special word for &quot;doctor of=
 plants&quot; in some language). Nevertheless, I vote for s1=3Dm2.<br>
<br>Firstly because I think it is a nice principle to prefer identification=
 in the first places of the brivla rather than in the last ones. Ultimately=
 because I don&#39;t think s1=3Dm4 is a perfect identity, instead involving=
 sumti raising of s1, inevitably leading to the concept of spapli. Marginal=
ly because I prefer killing the seemingly redundant {spabi&#39;amikce} rath=
er than the more natural {spaplimikce} ({spabi&#39;amikce} suggests {spasel=
micmikce}).</div>
<div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o<br></div><div>mi&#39;e .asiz.<br><br></div></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 8 Decem=
ber 2013 05:21, Wuzzy <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:almikes@aol.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">almikes@aol.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Am Sat, 07 Dec 2013 20:40:34 -0500<br>
schrieb Pierre Abbat &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:phma@bezitopo.org">phma@bezitopo=
.org</a>&gt;:<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; Does this mean a doctor who treats plants (s1=3Dm2) or a herbalist<br>
&gt; (s1=3Dm4)?<br>
</div>This can=92t be answered until someone wrote a definition for =93spam=
ikce=94.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; What&#39;s the word for the other?<br>
</div>As far I know there is no word for both concepts yet.<br>
<br>
At the moment,<br>
=93spamikce=94 not more meaningful to me than its veljvo =93spati mikce=94.=
<br>
We know that this must be a doctor who has *something* to do with<br>
plants. The =93*something*=94 is unspecified.<br>
This is because nobody bothered to write down a definition of =93spamikce=
=94<br>
to pin down<br>
a) the place structure and<br>
b) that =93*something*=94.<br>
<br>
As long as there is no such definition, I=92d avoid the term in<br>
written text and either use the veljvo =93spati mikce=94 or declare it a<br=
>
nonce word with =93za&#39;e=94 instead.<br>
<br>
To choose a good definition for =93spamikce=94 is to find the most obvious<=
br>
=93*something*=94 one can think of. In this case, I am not sure which of th=
e<br>
both definitions you suggested may be more obvious.<br>
<br>
I generally agree with gejyspa, but the suggested terms are also of<br>
course not defined yet.<br>
<br>
If anyone would bother to write one or more good definitions, I=92d<br>
happily add them to jbovlaste for you (if you don=92t add the definitions<b=
r>
by yourselves, of course). :-)<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
--<br>
Wuzzy<br>
XMPP: <a href=3D"mailto:Wuzzy2@jabber.ccc.de">Wuzzy2@jabber.ccc.de</a><br>
E-Mail: <a href=3D"mailto:wuzzy2@mail.ru">wuzzy2@mail.ru</a><br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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