Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 01:22:51 -0800 (PST)
From: lorxus <coronacoreanici@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <3f955e44-a4ca-4c9c-ba07-ed82f6dcd1d8@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Problems with gismu
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coi ro do

It seems like for a language that prides itself on regularity, ease of 
learning and use, and logic, Lojban sure has weird and incomplete gismu. 

A given gismu can have anywhere from 1 to 5 places of varying types, some 
of them a sign of gismu bloat, and there are even a few extremely obvious 
gismu with clear counterparts are excluded. My proposals: first, make all 
gismu be exactly 3 places long, with the first an agent, the second a 
patient, and the third a beneficiary - loosely. For gismu like {blanu}, we 
might have "x1 is blue of shade x2 to observer x3", or something like that; 
{zdani} might be "x1 is a house for x2 owned by x3". 

Additionally, we would have a few 1-place gismu to collect all the gismu 
bloat - things like "x1 is a standard for x2 (ka?) used by x3", "x1 is an 
epistemology for truths about x2 (du'u) used by x3", or "x1 is a 
condition/mitigating factor/modifier on event x2 (nu?) affecting x3".

As for blatantly missing gismu: why is there no word for salty, but words 
for sweet, bitter, sour, and spicy? (bonus points for whoever decided to 
make a lujvo for spicy meaning pain-flavored) Why don't we have gismu for 
arrive, old, discard, follow (because I assume that jersi does not have 
this sense), or appear? Why not for otter, or carrot, or dolphin, or any 
passerine bird? 

If I am overly inexperienced to talk about this, or there are good reasons 
for not making one of the few irregular and irritating points of a 
beautiful language reflect the rest of it, please tell me so.

re'isai mi'e lorxus

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<div dir=3D"ltr">coi ro do<br><br>It seems like for a language that prides =
itself on regularity, ease of learning and use, and logic, Lojban sure has =
weird and incomplete gismu. <br><br>A given gismu can have anywhere from 1 =
to 5 places of varying types, some of them a sign of gismu bloat, and there=
 are even a few extremely obvious gismu with clear counterparts are exclude=
d. My proposals: first, make all gismu be exactly 3 places long, with the f=
irst an agent, the second a patient, and the third a beneficiary - loosely.=
 For gismu like {blanu}, we might have "x1 is blue of shade x2 to observer =
x3", or something like that; {zdani} might be "x1 is a house for x2 owned b=
y x3". <br><br>Additionally, we would have a few 1-place gismu to collect a=
ll the gismu bloat - things like "x1 is a standard for x2 (ka?) used by x3"=
, "x1 is an epistemology for truths about x2 (du'u) used by x3", or "x1 is =
a condition/mitigating factor/modifier on event x2 (nu?) affecting x3".<br>=
<br>As for blatantly missing gismu: why is there no word for salty, but wor=
ds for sweet, bitter, sour, and spicy? (bonus points for whoever decided to=
 make a lujvo for spicy meaning pain-flavored) Why don't we have gismu for =
arrive, old, discard, follow (because I assume that jersi does not have thi=
s sense), or appear? Why not for otter, or carrot, or dolphin, or any passe=
rine bird? <br><br>If I am overly inexperienced to talk about this, or ther=
e are good reasons for not making one of the few irregular and irritating p=
oints of a beautiful language reflect the rest of it, please tell me so.<br=
><br>re'isai mi'e lorxus<br></div>

<p></p>

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