Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 02:44:47 -0800 (PST)
From: lorxus <coronacoreanici@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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References: <3f955e44-a4ca-4c9c-ba07-ed82f6dcd1d8@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Re: Problems with gismu
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I didn't know that loCCan was a thing that was actually going to occur; I 
had assumed it was entirely theoretical. In that case, I'd prefer 
conservation of the current language with maybe a few changes to some 
particularly bad gismu, and definitely a few new gismu, such as the ones I 
named before, (By the way, other things produce a salty taste than table 
salt. How would you say "The blood is salty" in Lojban? My best guess is 
{lei ciblu cu vu'ismimlu loi silna}.) and then to bring these lessons more 
completely into loCCan. (which will hopefully be the fantastic perfect 
logical language and everyone will be impressed and happy forever zo'ocu'i)

On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:22:51 AM UTC-5, lorxus wrote:
>
> coi ro do
>
> It seems like for a language that prides itself on regularity, ease of 
> learning and use, and logic, Lojban sure has weird and incomplete gismu. 
>
> A given gismu can have anywhere from 1 to 5 places of varying types, some 
> of them a sign of gismu bloat, and there are even a few extremely obvious 
> gismu with clear counterparts are excluded. My proposals: first, make all 
> gismu be exactly 3 places long, with the first an agent, the second a 
> patient, and the third a beneficiary - loosely. For gismu like {blanu}, we 
> might have "x1 is blue of shade x2 to observer x3", or something like that; 
> {zdani} might be "x1 is a house for x2 owned by x3". 
>
> Additionally, we would have a few 1-place gismu to collect all the gismu 
> bloat - things like "x1 is a standard for x2 (ka?) used by x3", "x1 is an 
> epistemology for truths about x2 (du'u) used by x3", or "x1 is a 
> condition/mitigating factor/modifier on event x2 (nu?) affecting x3".
>
> As for blatantly missing gismu: why is there no word for salty, but words 
> for sweet, bitter, sour, and spicy? (bonus points for whoever decided to 
> make a lujvo for spicy meaning pain-flavored) Why don't we have gismu for 
> arrive, old, discard, follow (because I assume that jersi does not have 
> this sense), or appear? Why not for otter, or carrot, or dolphin, or any 
> passerine bird? 
>
> If I am overly inexperienced to talk about this, or there are good reasons 
> for not making one of the few irregular and irritating points of a 
> beautiful language reflect the rest of it, please tell me so.
>
> re'isai mi'e lorxus
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I didn't know that loCCan was a thing that was actually go=
ing to occur; I had assumed it was entirely theoretical. In that case, I'd =
prefer conservation of the current language with maybe a few changes to som=
e particularly bad gismu, and definitely a few new gismu, such as the ones =
I named before, (By the way, other things produce a salty taste than table =
salt. How would you say "The blood is salty" in Lojban? My best guess is {l=
ei ciblu cu vu'ismimlu loi silna}.) and then to bring these lessons more co=
mpletely into loCCan. (which will hopefully be the fantastic perfect logica=
l language and everyone will be impressed and happy forever zo'ocu'i)<br><b=
r>On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:22:51 AM UTC-5, lorxus wrote:<blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">coi ro do<br><br>It seems=
 like for a language that prides itself on regularity, ease of learning and=
 use, and logic, Lojban sure has weird and incomplete gismu. <br><br>A give=
n gismu can have anywhere from 1 to 5 places of varying types, some of them=
 a sign of gismu bloat, and there are even a few extremely obvious gismu wi=
th clear counterparts are excluded. My proposals: first, make all gismu be =
exactly 3 places long, with the first an agent, the second a patient, and t=
he third a beneficiary - loosely. For gismu like {blanu}, we might have "x1=
 is blue of shade x2 to observer x3", or something like that; {zdani} might=
 be "x1 is a house for x2 owned by x3". <br><br>Additionally, we would have=
 a few 1-place gismu to collect all the gismu bloat - things like "x1 is a =
standard for x2 (ka?) used by x3", "x1 is an epistemology for truths about =
x2 (du'u) used by x3", or "x1 is a condition/mitigating factor/modifier on =
event x2 (nu?) affecting x3".<br><br>As for blatantly missing gismu: why is=
 there no word for salty, but words for sweet, bitter, sour, and spicy? (bo=
nus points for whoever decided to make a lujvo for spicy meaning pain-flavo=
red) Why don't we have gismu for arrive, old, discard, follow (because I as=
sume that jersi does not have this sense), or appear? Why not for otter, or=
 carrot, or dolphin, or any passerine bird? <br><br>If I am overly inexperi=
enced to talk about this, or there are good reasons for not making one of t=
he few irregular and irritating points of a beautiful language reflect the =
rest of it, please tell me so.<br><br>re'isai mi'e lorxus<br></div></blockq=
uote></div>

<p></p>

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