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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Problems with gismu
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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 08:25:49 -0600
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 Content preview:  Zo'ocu'i indeed,especially if it were to get actual users.
    Sent from my iPad On Dec 19, 2013, at 4:44, lorxus <coronacoreanici@gmail.com>
    wrote: [...] 
 
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Zo'ocu'i indeed,especially if it were to get actual users.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 19, 2013, at 4:44, lorxus <coronacoreanici@gmail.com> wrote:

> I didn't know that loCCan was a thing that was actually going to occur; I=
 had assumed it was entirely theoretical. In that case, I'd prefer conserva=
tion of the current language with maybe a few changes to some particularly =
bad gismu, and definitely a few new gismu, such as the ones I named before,=
 (By the way, other things produce a salty taste than table salt. How would=
 you say "The blood is salty" in Lojban? My best guess is {lei ciblu cu vu'=
ismimlu loi silna}.) and then to bring these lessons more completely into l=
oCCan. (which will hopefully be the fantastic perfect logical language and =
everyone will be impressed and happy forever zo'ocu'i)
>=20
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:22:51 AM UTC-5, lorxus wrote:
> coi ro do
>=20
> It seems like for a language that prides itself on regularity, ease of le=
arning and use, and logic, Lojban sure has weird and incomplete gismu.=20
>=20
> A given gismu can have anywhere from 1 to 5 places of varying types, some=
 of them a sign of gismu bloat, and there are even a few extremely obvious =
gismu with clear counterparts are excluded. My proposals: first, make all g=
ismu be exactly 3 places long, with the first an agent, the second a patien=
t, and the third a beneficiary - loosely. For gismu like {blanu}, we might =
have "x1 is blue of shade x2 to observer x3", or something like that; {zdan=
i} might be "x1 is a house for x2 owned by x3".=20
>=20
> Additionally, we would have a few 1-place gismu to collect all the gismu =
bloat - things like "x1 is a standard for x2 (ka?) used by x3", "x1 is an e=
pistemology for truths about x2 (du'u) used by x3", or "x1 is a condition/m=
itigating factor/modifier on event x2 (nu?) affecting x3".
>=20
> As for blatantly missing gismu: why is there no word for salty, but words=
 for sweet, bitter, sour, and spicy? (bonus points for whoever decided to m=
ake a lujvo for spicy meaning pain-flavored) Why don't we have gismu for ar=
rive, old, discard, follow (because I assume that jersi does not have this =
sense), or appear? Why not for otter, or carrot, or dolphin, or any passeri=
ne bird?=20
>=20
> If I am overly inexperienced to talk about this, or there are good reason=
s for not making one of the few irregular and irritating points of a beauti=
ful language reflect the rest of it, please tell me so.
>=20
> re'isai mi'e lorxus
> --=20
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<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>Zo'ocu'i indeed,especiall=
y if it were to get actual users.<br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On=
 Dec 19, 2013, at 4:44, lorxus &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:coronacoreanici@gmail.=
com">coronacoreanici@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">I didn't know that loCCan was a =
thing that was actually going to occur; I had assumed it was entirely theor=
etical. In that case, I'd prefer conservation of the current language with =
maybe a few changes to some particularly bad gismu, and definitely a few ne=
w gismu, such as the ones I named before, (By the way, other things produce=
 a salty taste than table salt. How would you say "The blood is salty" in L=
ojban? My best guess is {lei ciblu cu vu'ismimlu loi silna}.) and then to b=
ring these lessons more completely into loCCan. (which will hopefully be th=
e fantastic perfect logical language and everyone will be impressed and hap=
py forever zo'ocu'i)<br><br>On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:22:51 AM UTC-5,=
 lorxus wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-l=
eft: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>coi ro do<br><br>It seems like for a language that prides itself on regula=
rity, ease of learning and use, and logic, Lojban sure has weird and incomp=
lete gismu. <br><br>A given gismu can have anywhere from 1 to 5 places of v=
arying types, some of them a sign of gismu bloat, and there are even a few =
extremely obvious gismu with clear counterparts are excluded. My proposals:=
 first, make all gismu be exactly 3 places long, with the first an agent, t=
he second a patient, and the third a beneficiary - loosely. For gismu like =
{blanu}, we might have "x1 is blue of shade x2 to observer x3", or somethin=
g like that; {zdani} might be "x1 is a house for x2 owned by x3". <br><br>A=
dditionally, we would have a few 1-place gismu to collect all the gismu blo=
at - things like "x1 is a standard for x2 (ka?) used by x3", "x1 is an epis=
temology for truths about x2 (du'u) used by x3", or "x1 is a condition/miti=
gating factor/modifier on event x2 (nu?) affecting x3".<br><br>As for blata=
ntly missing gismu: why is there no word for salty, but words for sweet, bi=
tter, sour, and spicy? (bonus points for whoever decided to make a lujvo fo=
r spicy meaning pain-flavored) Why don't we have gismu for arrive, old, dis=
card, follow (because I assume that jersi does not have this sense), or app=
ear? Why not for otter, or carrot, or dolphin, or any passerine bird? <br><=
br>If I am overly inexperienced to talk about this, or there are good reaso=
ns for not making one of the few irregular and irritating points of a beaut=
iful language reflect the rest of it, please tell me so.<br><br>re'isai mi'=
e lorxus<br></div></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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</div></blockquote></body></html>

<p></p>

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