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From: MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 15:54:19 -0500
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Problems with gismu
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AFAIK, LoCCan isn't currently in the works (but note that recent engelang
project). OTOH, I think it's inevitable. Some people simply want to improve
whatever they encounter, not accepting that 'good enough' is good enough.

stevo


On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 5:44 AM, lorxus <coronacoreanici@gmail.com> wrote:

> I didn't know that loCCan was a thing that was actually going to occur; I
> had assumed it was entirely theoretical. In that case, I'd prefer
> conservation of the current language with maybe a few changes to some
> particularly bad gismu, and definitely a few new gismu, such as the ones I
> named before, (By the way, other things produce a salty taste than table
> salt. How would you say "The blood is salty" in Lojban? My best guess is
> {lei ciblu cu vu'ismimlu loi silna}.) and then to bring these lessons more
> completely into loCCan. (which will hopefully be the fantastic perfect
> logical language and everyone will be impressed and happy forever zo'ocu'i)
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:22:51 AM UTC-5, lorxus wrote:
>>
>> coi ro do
>>
>> It seems like for a language that prides itself on regularity, ease of
>> learning and use, and logic, Lojban sure has weird and incomplete gismu.
>>
>> A given gismu can have anywhere from 1 to 5 places of varying types, some
>> of them a sign of gismu bloat, and there are even a few extremely obvious
>> gismu with clear counterparts are excluded. My proposals: first, make all
>> gismu be exactly 3 places long, with the first an agent, the second a
>> patient, and the third a beneficiary - loosely. For gismu like {blanu}, we
>> might have "x1 is blue of shade x2 to observer x3", or something like that;
>> {zdani} might be "x1 is a house for x2 owned by x3".
>>
>> Additionally, we would have a few 1-place gismu to collect all the gismu
>> bloat - things like "x1 is a standard for x2 (ka?) used by x3", "x1 is an
>> epistemology for truths about x2 (du'u) used by x3", or "x1 is a
>> condition/mitigating factor/modifier on event x2 (nu?) affecting x3".
>>
>> As for blatantly missing gismu: why is there no word for salty, but words
>> for sweet, bitter, sour, and spicy? (bonus points for whoever decided to
>> make a lujvo for spicy meaning pain-flavored) Why don't we have gismu for
>> arrive, old, discard, follow (because I assume that jersi does not have
>> this sense), or appear? Why not for otter, or carrot, or dolphin, or any
>> passerine bird?
>>
>> If I am overly inexperienced to talk about this, or there are good
>> reasons for not making one of the few irregular and irritating points of a
>> beautiful language reflect the rest of it, please tell me so.
>>
>> re'isai mi'e lorxus
>>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;cou=
rier new&#39;,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace">AFAIK, LoCCan isn&#39;t currentl=
y in the works (but note that recent engelang project). OTOH, I think it=
9;s inevitable. Some people simply want to improve whatever they encounter,=
 not accepting that &#39;good enough&#39; is good enough.=A0</div>

<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;,monospace">st=
evo</div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 5:44 AM=
, lorxus <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:coronacoreanici@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">coronacoreanici@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I didn&#39;t know that loCC=
an was a thing that was actually going to occur; I had assumed it was entir=
ely theoretical. In that case, I&#39;d prefer conservation of the current l=
anguage with maybe a few changes to some particularly bad gismu, and defini=
tely a few new gismu, such as the ones I named before, (By the way, other t=
hings produce a salty taste than table salt. How would you say &quot;The bl=
ood is salty&quot; in Lojban? My best guess is {lei ciblu cu vu&#39;ismimlu=
 loi silna}.) and then to bring these lessons more completely into loCCan. =
(which will hopefully be the fantastic perfect logical language and everyon=
e will be impressed and happy forever zo&#39;ocu&#39;i)<div>

<div class=3D"h5"><br><br>On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 4:22:51 AM UTC-5, l=
orxus wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left=
:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">coi ro=
 do<br>

<br>It seems like for a language that prides itself on regularity, ease of =
learning and use, and logic, Lojban sure has weird and incomplete gismu. <b=
r><br>A given gismu can have anywhere from 1 to 5 places of varying types, =
some of them a sign of gismu bloat, and there are even a few extremely obvi=
ous gismu with clear counterparts are excluded. My proposals: first, make a=
ll gismu be exactly 3 places long, with the first an agent, the second a pa=
tient, and the third a beneficiary - loosely. For gismu like {blanu}, we mi=
ght have &quot;x1 is blue of shade x2 to observer x3&quot;, or something li=
ke that; {zdani} might be &quot;x1 is a house for x2 owned by x3&quot;. <br=
>

<br>Additionally, we would have a few 1-place gismu to collect all the gism=
u bloat - things like &quot;x1 is a standard for x2 (ka?) used by x3&quot;,=
 &quot;x1 is an epistemology for truths about x2 (du&#39;u) used by x3&quot=
;, or &quot;x1 is a condition/mitigating factor/modifier on event x2 (nu?) =
affecting x3&quot;.<br>

<br>As for blatantly missing gismu: why is there no word for salty, but wor=
ds for sweet, bitter, sour, and spicy? (bonus points for whoever decided to=
 make a lujvo for spicy meaning pain-flavored) Why don&#39;t we have gismu =
for arrive, old, discard, follow (because I assume that jersi does not have=
 this sense), or appear? Why not for otter, or carrot, or dolphin, or any p=
asserine bird? <br>

<br>If I am overly inexperienced to talk about this, or there are good reas=
ons for not making one of the few irregular and irritating points of a beau=
tiful language reflect the rest of it, please tell me so.<br><br>re&#39;isa=
i mi&#39;e lorxus<br>

</div></blockquote></div></div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5=
">

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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