Received: from mail-ie0-f192.google.com ([209.85.223.192]:36566) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VtsFC-0006Dl-DG for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 21:03:36 -0800 Received: by mail-ie0-f192.google.com with SMTP id x13sf342151ief.9 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 21:03:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=r/Ry/hUaTnPIf6V0M4urZutfxGRQw2UZ2E7/l1Wi5zA=; b=hZi7R5xn06XvLtiYJYR5OkcZb3JzbY9sB7ktOWOnsJdoe85yjHVAL2IcxI2hZ6ZoKz fzXGN9VwpjiEDwt6SB5Lewsd+TCMLHfDQ4bdqhkWk0v3P0pnPKc6A2MHdhTlI9MUeDbS CWH+9ZzdARiXfGYdPBaBFGhvd1ga6lPOIShtGimBPEwR7lZ9z8/yYUomXyyxpu8wz6qF EbrdE2IBxk6TZkz2mUuqLPLSO7ipoOiFXqbxxdis3D02z3V5VJA4LwGHZFP/WgnIt7br OUFQpqyU8NX+qXsOLl8QGSVdbIztcJcdXxCtcee4djjNWJe+CtxiczHrKAAjxo/Lmowy 4nJg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=r/Ry/hUaTnPIf6V0M4urZutfxGRQw2UZ2E7/l1Wi5zA=; b=UIIrJV0/t0HM1F53vS0Yk3SbTa6BCmhWXFzjikeiOs3vqribRI9BvvEa3tTx6bjHsX DzU/uo/+wRgQZXrdMn8Ra3VKtD1qOajGnPszdsLPHw295fph1Dmbd3aH2FiYU1phKbWN J0NOD/ZFSiW8Y5T/zcqUsO+o08T8nxJIJO6hq1UCYek8S/5MUNbomJCUdAcFHSdLNTg5 +w7kLTZ/BJ33bVe+6dqp4cxccU4zC5GBUSCYw78sswTmLcrIIQO3dk8n/TPSOXVRwLB1 N7H/BHUZB25Eb3EEYvF3RCCYh30Ka+94SpQbCkpe65Zky77o9C5R9J0rq14yWOPss4GH 89qA== X-Received: by 10.182.125.70 with SMTP id mo6mr492obb.22.1387515799833; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 21:03:19 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.224.201 with SMTP id re9ls417177obc.75.gmail; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 21:03:19 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.118.138 with SMTP id km10mr290obb.27.1387515799462; Thu, 19 Dec 2013 21:03:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 21:03:18 -0800 (PST) From: lorxus To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1554030.Kqy3VzX5Yp@caracal> References: <1554030.Kqy3VzX5Yp@caracal> Subject: Re: [lojban] mi puba'o fanva MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: coronacoreanici@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_172_19733613.1387515798801" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_172_19733613.1387515798801 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thursday, December 19, 2013 11:08:59 PM UTC-5, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > On Thursday, December 19, 2013 18:38:00 lorxus wrote: > > coi ro do > > > > I love Welcome to Night Vale, and I was thinking today. The idea of > > translating the computer's speech from E34 seemed particularly apt for > > translation, so I did! Annotated below: > > (English here: > > > http://nightvalequotes.tumblr.com/post/67606240386/i-know-how-you-have-hurt- > > meghan-with-your-words ) > > > > mi djuno lo nu do xrani la megan sepi'o lo valsi po'e do (Tried to > capture > > stiltedness, may have succeeded too well) > > .i lo dikca cu morji > > > > .i xu do xebni la megan > > > > .i la sisil zilzba lo ciblu .e lo tolmulno skapi > > .i mi zilzba lo clupa .e lo dikca > > I think "unfinished" here means "untanned", which I'm not sure how to > translate. It does not mean "tolmulno". I pictured blood leaking out of > where > the skin is incomplete, or where a hole was made in the skin by some > injury. > It does indeed mean untanned. I was going for the "done" or "completed" aspect of mulno though. Maybe {tolcupra}? > > > .i la megan prami la skami > > .i la skami sezmlugau lo prami be(?) la megan ((Simulation of love) for > > Meghan, or simulation of (love for Meghan)?) > > > > .i la skami cupra loi xamgu selzukte > > > > .i da'i gi loi xamgu selzukte tezu'e la megan gleki gi la skami prami la > > megan (Presumably tezu'e la megan gleki) (Tried to capture stilted > feeling) > > (OR: .i ganai loi xamgu... gi la skami) > > This doesn't parse. First, the "gi ... gi" construction requires > that > the cmavo before the first "gi" be a (nonlogical) conjunction, and "da'i" > isn't > a conjunction. Second, the first clause has a selbri "gleki", but the > second > part has no selbri and thus is not a clause. ("la skami prami" is a > sumti.) > > Aha. I think I need to use a {cu} then. Not sure about how to get the stiltedness of "If good deeds for Megan, then Computer loves Megan." - possibly use the somewhat awkward and inaccurate material conditional {ganai-gi}? > > .i ta'onai le purdi datnynoi (Any good way to say "but first"?) > > > > .i loi tcesmaji cpumi'i cu litru le ca'o zenba sarlu gi'e jersi loi > > fraktali selylitru pa'o loi tricu .e loi xrula foldi > > I'd say "litru loi fraktali". To follow a path isn't "jersi"; to follow > someone along a path is "jersi". > > OK, got it. Some of these gismu are a bit tricky. So you're saying jersi = pursue/follow after object rather than just follow? Trying to make this fit with my further conception of lidne = toljersi. > > .i loi mirli cu cliva loi cilce ricfoi terzu'e tacycti loi silna bliku > noi > > selpunji du'ida'o(!) ne'i loi sarlu birka (I don't know why, but this > word > > makes me happy) > > .i loi skari cipni cu prane saxsa'a .ije loi toldi na setca lo vindu > > "terzu'e" should be "tezu'e lonu". je'e > You mean "du'irda'o"; I was trying to figure > out why you're canceling pronoun assignments when you haven't assigned any > pronouns. At this point I'm not sure what the English means. I'm picturing > a > galaxy with spiral arms in a clearing, which doesn't make sense. > > My guess is that it is meant to be surreal and barely sensible, but that it should be taken loosely to mean that after the tractors have tract-ed along the spiral paths, (which originated in a special spot) then at points equidistant along the arms of the spiral, salt blocks are placed. As for the lujvo, forgot I need to glue vowel-ending rafsi together. Why is {jvajvo} valid, though? > > .i doi la megan mi zbasu lo prane munje tezu'e do gleki (See jufra 9 > note > > on tezu'e) > > .i loi cmana cu crino > > .i loi lalxu cu krili blanu gi'e minra loi blabi dilnu > > .i le bumru be loi cimgau cu rinka loi tanbargu > > > > .i ga'u si vu(?) ga'u ku loi kanla cu zgana lo ro muvdu gi'e tirna lo ro > > risnysna (Am I doing tenses right) > > .i doi megan do zvati > > .i le ko'a goi xance po'e do ponse le ko'a xadni goi ko'e cu zilzba lo > > gasta .e lo dikca gi'e cpana le vo tuple noi pilno le kamvli be lo pare > > dikca matra > > ko'a goi le xance po'e do > > Whoops, misplaced that KOhA bind. > > .i li pazepici megygra cu junta ko'e (Metric?) > > megygra li pazepici > Not sure if this works, on reflection. Source text talks about the machine *weighing* 17.3 tons, and thus the tons cannot be metric. What would be a good gismu to use here? > > > .i lo ro nanmu .e ninmu .e lo ro danlu cu ba kansi'u jmive gi'e gleki > > .i le dikca minji ba kurji zgana > > "ro nanmu ja ninmu" or "ro nanmu .e ro ninmu". > > First one works better. Was trying to capture the breaks in the source text, forgot that that was not how logical connectors work. "All the things-which-are-at-least-one-of man or women", not "all the things which are both (!) men and women". > > .i doi la megan lo nu jamna na ba zasti > > .i lo nu xebni .e lo nu terdatxei (!) na ba zasti (I settled on > > discrimination-hatred) > > .i la dezrt.blyfs na ba zasti > > Is "desert bluffs" a proper noun? > > Yes, it is. It is the name of a town in the universe of WtNV. > > .i le namcu be loi bisyladru vrusi cu ba jdika .i ku'i lei bisyladru > vrusi > > cu xauzma (A bit awkward) > > .i le vacri cu ba jinsa > > "namcu" doesn't have an x2. Try "terkancu". > > Is there a better way to say this, without resorting to count/number gismu? I was looking for a way to say "The quantity-of icecream-typeof-flavors will decrease". On reflection, possibly a cardinality cmavo. Going to hold off on changing this for now. > > .i nu'e mi ba gasnu lo nu le munje cu satci mintu le si'o do pu viska ca > le > > do melbi senva > > .i sisti lo nu jikcrofanza (!) .e lo cortu (I settled on > > social-hurt-typeof-annoyance) > > > > .i doi le mi po'o pendo mi cikre lo ro co'e > > .i mi ba- > > mi ba mo? > > The computer is cut off there. It might be helpful to hear the source text, too - WtNV E34, at just before 21:00 http://ec.libsyn.com/p/b/2/8/b281cc7e91c2d805/34_-_A_Beautiful_Dream.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01c08032d0c15d20d4&c_id=6353149 > mu'o mi'e .pier. > -- > I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales. > > ki'esai do -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_172_19733613.1387515798801 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thursday, December 19, 2013 11:08:59 PM UTC-5, = Pierre Abbat wrote:
On Thursday= , December 19, 2013 18:38:00 lorxus wrote:
> coi ro do
>=20
> I love Welcome to Night Vale, and I was thinking today. The idea o= f
> translating the computer's speech from E34 seemed particularly apt= for
> translation, so I did! Annotated below:
> (English here:
> http://nightvalequotes.tumblr.c= om/post/67606240386/i-know-how-you-have-hurt-
> meghan-with-your-words )
>=20
> mi djuno lo nu do xrani la megan sepi'o lo valsi po'e do (Tried to= capture
> stiltedness, may have succeeded too well)
> .i lo dikca cu morji
>=20
> .i xu do xebni la megan
>=20
> .i la sisil zilzba lo ciblu .e lo tolmulno skapi
> .i mi zilzba lo clupa .e lo dikca

I think "unfinished" here means "untanned", which I'm not sure how to= =20
translate. It does not mean "tolmulno". I pictured blood leaking out of= where=20
the skin is incomplete, or where a hole was made in the skin by some in= jury.
It does indeed mean untanned. I was going for the "do= ne" or "completed" aspect of mulno though. Maybe {tolcupra}?

> .i la megan prami la skami
> .i la skami sezmlugau lo prami be(?) la megan ((Simulation of love= ) for
> Meghan, or simulation of (love for Meghan)?)
>=20
> .i la skami cupra loi xamgu selzukte
>=20
> .i da'i gi loi xamgu selzukte tezu'e la megan gleki gi la skami pr= ami la
> megan (Presumably tezu'e la megan gleki) (Tried to capture stilted= feeling)
> (OR: .i ganai loi xamgu... gi la skami)

This doesn't parse. First, the "<cmavo>gi ... gi" construction re= quires that=20
the cmavo before the first "gi" be a (nonlogical) conjunction, and "da'= i" isn't=20
a conjunction. Second, the first clause has a selbri "gleki", but the s= econd=20
part has no selbri and thus is not a clause. ("la skami prami" is a sum= ti.)

Aha. I think I need to use a {cu} then. Not sure abou= t how to get the stiltedness of "If good deeds for Megan, then Computer lov= es Megan." - possibly use the somewhat awkward and inaccurate material cond= itional {ganai-gi}?
&= gt; .i ta'onai le purdi datnynoi (Any good way to say "but first"?)
>=20
> .i loi tcesmaji cpumi'i cu litru le ca'o zenba sarlu gi'e jersi lo= i
> fraktali selylitru pa'o loi tricu .e loi xrula foldi

I'd say "litru loi fraktali". To follow a path isn't "jersi"; to follow= =20
someone along a path is "jersi".

OK, got it. Some of these gismu are a bit tricky. So = you're saying jersi =3D pursue/follow after object rather than just follow?= Trying to make this fit with my further conception of lidne =3D toljersi. =
> .i loi mirli cu= cliva loi cilce ricfoi terzu'e tacycti loi silna bliku noi
> selpunji du'ida'o(!) ne'i loi sarlu birka (I don't know why, but t= his word
> makes me happy)
> .i loi skari cipni cu prane saxsa'a .ije loi toldi na setca lo vin= du

"terzu'e" should be "tezu'e lonu".
je'e
You mean "du'irda'o"; I was tryin= g to figure=20
out why you're canceling pronoun assignments when you haven't assigned = any=20
pronouns. At this point I'm not sure what the English means. I'm pictur= ing a=20
galaxy with spiral arms in a clearing, which doesn't make sense.

My guess is that it is meant to be surreal and barely= sensible, but that it should be taken loosely to mean that after the tract= ors have tract-ed along the spiral paths, (which originated in a special sp= ot) then at points equidistant along the arms of the spiral, salt blocks ar= e placed. As for the lujvo, forgot I need to glue vowel-ending rafsi togeth= er. Why is {jvajvo} valid, though?
> .i doi la megan mi zbasu lo prane munje tezu'e do gleki = (See jufra 9 note
> on tezu'e)
> .i loi cmana cu crino
> .i loi lalxu cu krili blanu gi'e minra loi blabi dilnu
> .i le bumru be loi cimgau cu rinka loi tanbargu
>=20
> .i ga'u si vu(?) ga'u ku loi kanla cu zgana lo ro muvdu gi'e tirna= lo ro
> risnysna (Am I doing tenses right)
> .i doi megan do zvati
> .i le ko'a goi xance po'e do ponse le ko'a xadni goi ko'e cu zilzb= a lo
> gasta .e lo dikca gi'e cpana le vo tuple noi pilno le kamvli be lo= pare
> dikca matra

ko'a goi le xance po'e do

Whoops, misplaced that KOhA bind.
> .i li pazepici megygra cu junta ko= 'e (Metric?)

megygra li pazepici
Not sure if this works, on reflection. Source text ta= lks about the machine *weighing* 17.3 tons, and thus the tons cannot be met= ric. What would be a good gismu to use here?

> .i lo ro nanmu .e ninmu .e lo ro danlu cu ba kansi'u jmive gi'e gl= eki
> .i le dikca minji ba kurji zgana

"ro nanmu ja ninmu" or "ro nanmu .e ro ninmu".

First one works better. Was trying to capture the bre= aks in the source text, forgot that that was not how logical connectors wor= k. "All the things-which-are-at-least-one-of man or women", not "all the th= ings which are both (!) men and women". 
> .i doi la megan lo nu jamna na ba zasti
> .i lo nu xebni .e lo nu terdatxei (!) na ba zasti (I settled on
> discrimination-hatred)
> .i la dezrt.blyfs na ba zasti

Is "desert bluffs" a proper noun?

Yes, it is. It is the name of a town in the universe = of WtNV.
> .i le = namcu be loi bisyladru vrusi cu ba jdika .i ku'i lei bisyladru vrusi
> cu xauzma (A bit awkward)
> .i le vacri cu ba jinsa

"namcu" doesn't have an x2. Try "terkancu".

Is there a better way to say this, without resorting = to count/number gismu? I was looking for a way to say "The quantity-of icec= ream-typeof-flavors will decrease". On reflection, possibly a cardinality c= mavo.  Going to hold off on changing this for now.
> .i nu'e mi ba gasnu lo nu le munje = cu satci mintu le si'o do pu viska ca le
> do melbi senva
> .i sisti lo nu jikcrofanza (!)  .e lo cortu (I settled on
> social-hurt-typeof-annoyance)
>=20
> .i doi le mi po'o pendo mi cikre lo ro co'e
> .i mi ba-

mi ba mo?

The computer is cut off there. It might be helpful to= hear the source text, too - WtNV E34, at just before 21:00 http://ec.libsy= n.com/p/b/2/8/b281cc7e91c2d805/34_-_A_Beautiful_Dream.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20= c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01c08032d0c15d20d4&c_id=3D6353149
=
mu'o mi'e .pier.
--=20
I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales.

ki'esai do

--
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