Received: from mail-gg0-f187.google.com ([209.85.161.187]:63685) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Vx0bW-0002HA-9p for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:35:34 -0800 Received: by mail-gg0-f187.google.com with SMTP id k4sf2327681ggn.24 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:35:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Q9Lek9qV5+EnoH+ciJ4Qf5l5gxSKwZKbOEGNxnsHJS8=; b=dTl4gkp5rQPr1rkpQS3S6yY1agVlpXAFa+1fO5I5SAQwPIGNLzmfdBYGlQ3TK8qn6P wH3WUgmxPUtUNp0Oemeg5K/GlgPkRc5r3aM4CleSCEfEFCelDAppdJ8svcJrr3lDXMW8 scy4M+tSED1J3EQhDX3CWZgi2KDiqv/vSJrXg4POvxqukPSw9uEFfGlFxabqbqDCBJkX tFX2vNZxnIlk+nXdnsDUmbdpGdiiTtefif88p/Hyds5wUpJGBtoQdQc+edq41z4BuVSg 7MF48jw/fRTNuQH8PBJQNKA1sBWJwXfHC47nucDp37My9UOH/XDLHIS3/PdC6k8y7m7s 8Ajg== X-Received: by 10.49.29.8 with SMTP id f8mr92661qeh.10.1388262919639; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:35:19 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.49.127.175 with SMTP id nh15ls3230812qeb.9.gmail; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:35:19 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.181.69 with SMTP id du5mr22979072vec.7.1388262919201; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:35:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qe0-x22d.google.com (mail-qe0-x22d.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c02::22d]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z8si570526qcn.0.2013.12.28.12.35.19 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:35:19 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c02::22d as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c02::22d; Received: by mail-qe0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id 6so10325034qea.18 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:35:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.109.97 with SMTP id hr1mr94578518qeb.59.1388262919106; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:35:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.224.98 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 12:35:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <330a2af5-bd31-4291-810f-58c6d8221a17@googlegroups.com> References: <3f955e44-a4ca-4c9c-ba07-ed82f6dcd1d8@googlegroups.com> <1631893.tefe0xbQy3@caracal> <330a2af5-bd31-4291-810f-58c6d8221a17@googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 13:35:19 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Problems with gismu From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c02::22d as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bea31a625f6e004ee9e268b X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --047d7bea31a625f6e004ee9e268b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 7:08 AM, lorxus wrote: > If that were so, there should be absolutely no difference between "come > towards me" and "go towards me". > In Lojban, there isn't. "One goes to a destination." {zo'e klama lo se klama} "On come from an origin." {zo'e klama fi lo te klama} > On Saturday, December 28, 2013 5:06:50 AM UTC-5, stevo wrote: > >> How can "come" and "go" be distinguished by aspects? Don't the aspects >> apply to each one equally? "Come" is 'toward the speaker', "go" is more >> general, but if contrasted with "come", it means 'away from the speaker'. >> The distinction in Lojban is moot, since the destination (x2) and origin >> (x3) allow sidestepping the whole "come/go" dichotomy. >> >> stevo >> >> >> On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 2:24 AM, la arxokuna wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, December 20, 2013 6:31:55 PM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote: >>>> >>>> (And for that matter, how do you even >>>> > mark deixis (go/come distinction) in Lojban, anyway?) >>>> >>>> With the deixis words ti, ta, or tu in x2 or x3. The go/come >>>> distinction is >>>> not universal; Hebrew instead contrasts enter/exit (ba'/tse'). >>>> >>> >>> "Come"/"go" can probably be separated with aspects. >>> "come" is rather *mo'u klama* or *co'i klama*. >>> "go" is *ca'o klama* >>> although of course we can have "coming" as *ca'o co'i klama* >>> However, one needs to understand the meaning behind what's being said. >>> "Don't translate words but meaning!" as said in one tutorial in the wiki. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --047d7bea31a625f6e004ee9e268b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On S= at, Dec 28, 2013 at 7:08 AM, lorxus <coronacoreanici@gmail.com= > wrote:
If that were so, there shou= ld be absolutely no difference between "come towards me" and &quo= t;go towards me".

In Lojban, there isn't.
=
"One goes to a destination."
{zo'= ;e klama lo se klama}

"On come from an origin."=
{zo'e klama fi lo te klama}
=A0
On Saturday, Decem= ber 28, 2013 5:06:50 AM UTC-5, stevo wrote:
=
How can "come" a= nd "go" be distinguished by aspects? Don't the aspects apply = to each one equally? "Come" is 'toward the speaker', &quo= t;go" is more general, but if contrasted with "come", it mea= ns 'away from the speaker'.=A0
The distinction in Lojban = is moot, since the destination (x2) and origin (x3) allow sidestepping the = whole "come/go" dichotomy.=A0

stevo


On Sat, De= c 28, 2013 at 2:24 AM, la arxokuna <gleki.is...@gma= il.com> wrote:


On Friday, December 20, 2013 6:31:55 PM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote= :
(And for that matter, how do you even
> mark deixis (go/come distinction) in Lojban, anyway?)

With the deixis words ti, ta, or tu in x2 or x3. The go/come distinctio= n is=20
not universal; Hebrew instead contrasts enter/exit (ba'/tse').

"Come"/"go" = can probably be separated with aspects.
"come" is rathe= r mo'u klama=A0or co'i klama.
"go"= ; is ca'o klama
although of course we can have "coming" as ca'o co= 9;i klama
However, one needs to understand the meaning behind= what's being said.
"Don't translate words but meani= ng!" as said in one tutorial in the wiki.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.

--
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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
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