Received: from mail-ie0-f188.google.com ([209.85.223.188]:40979) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Vx3No-00037b-Oa for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:33:34 -0800 Received: by mail-ie0-f188.google.com with SMTP id qd12sf2285331ieb.25 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:33:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=9pTtiRsDaI/lkjXPLcJjJP/fBct1mECdZQTNQ3XC3WE=; b=mI1EIxzfy8TODoLmBW2YqvbUZegvrqQF9jm2+5QGWCRZyJo4QwzsuYZi74HMo7IKIr YF1EOeg3l/Ent9SegAcgZq2u7D+tDy7gqA5W5OW1NY/w0bRGT443XAy4cdnxq4rOobVl TIhc4m6sxJTuDIMwgLO13K12ve4d68nKZ7cOvZNhIio4pzEFJzBRbzjRC7Pg8dFNbC/7 8eYxZxIt3G0TonZvVlcKkdz2nXlpmTpHNZHpLA230F2GT2qbE/oXgm0gYhwyGCHpHEEp Li0QTE5OEutscmaKnO3R1eK+sWDTDuCowQfTLn4111NjaClwe/L0HZ6iLcAXKWydQNci XaJQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=9pTtiRsDaI/lkjXPLcJjJP/fBct1mECdZQTNQ3XC3WE=; b=KEk10XsAwyvpBkSW8jJpQTFPiHYoHDQErCgZCWEF8tluJuxyMubbnFiAE9xx5SCqmO Q/o02qE5PlGRNPVGxJLcMt9mpI5IYsplNskVeW3kAcrgRFB8cSeD9XNuo78DOFlChfeo WXvt+9t6sq9fIxEstHEP97wFNgYdbOHCdV5RQVoZrjugXWTp4Xi574dnM3i7OWy6lvAJ 51oIANyol//dX7GmaJ1x+qB+PvzuXpxJ7tUmiutt4hLatr0jGdw42xVYBNQ6gt+sztiE t42zIN+HCip8XqOh7CTrR8TQU4neN7wuGTVw6c5Ll9d97/tiSdn6UIAWk5MGed729evG G/Ug== X-Received: by 10.182.213.41 with SMTP id np9mr476712obc.3.1388273602410; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:33:22 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.24.132 with SMTP id u4ls1267002obf.40.gmail; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:33:21 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.53.193 with SMTP id d1mr472888obp.0.1388273601510; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:33:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:33:20 -0800 (PST) From: lorxus To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3f955e44-a4ca-4c9c-ba07-ed82f6dcd1d8@googlegroups.com> <1631893.tefe0xbQy3@caracal> <330a2af5-bd31-4291-810f-58c6d8221a17@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Problems with gismu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: coronacoreanici@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_736_4765629.1388273600932" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_736_4765629.1388273600932 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In either of these cases, is it possible to know where the speaker is speaking from? On Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:35:19 PM UTC-5, aionys wrote: > > On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 7:08 AM, lorxus > > wrote: > >> If that were so, there should be absolutely no difference between "come >> towards me" and "go towards me". >> > > In Lojban, there isn't. > > "One goes to a destination." > {zo'e klama lo se klama} > > "On come from an origin." > {zo'e klama fi lo te klama} > > >> On Saturday, December 28, 2013 5:06:50 AM UTC-5, stevo wrote: >> >>> How can "come" and "go" be distinguished by aspects? Don't the aspects >>> apply to each one equally? "Come" is 'toward the speaker', "go" is more >>> general, but if contrasted with "come", it means 'away from the speaker'. >>> The distinction in Lojban is moot, since the destination (x2) and origin >>> (x3) allow sidestepping the whole "come/go" dichotomy. >>> >>> stevo >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 2:24 AM, la arxokuna wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, December 20, 2013 6:31:55 PM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote: >>>>> >>>>> (And for that matter, how do you even >>>>> > mark deixis (go/come distinction) in Lojban, anyway?) >>>>> >>>>> With the deixis words ti, ta, or tu in x2 or x3. The go/come >>>>> distinction is >>>>> not universal; Hebrew instead contrasts enter/exit (ba'/tse'). >>>>> >>>> >>>> "Come"/"go" can probably be separated with aspects. >>>> "come" is rather *mo'u klama* or *co'i klama*. >>>> "go" is *ca'o klama* >>>> although of course we can have "coming" as *ca'o co'i klama* >>>> However, one needs to understand the meaning behind what's being said. >>>> "Don't translate words but meaning!" as said in one tutorial in the >>>> wiki. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_736_4765629.1388273600932 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In either of these cases, is it possible to know where the= speaker is speaking from?

On Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:35:19 PM= UTC-5, aionys wrote:
On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 7:08 AM, l= orxus <coronac...= @gmail.com> wrote:
If that were so, there shou= ld be absolutely no difference between "come towards me" and "go towards me= ".

In Lojban, there isn't.

=
"One goes to a destination."
{zo'e klama lo se kla= ma}

"On come from an origin."
{zo'e klama fi lo te klama}
 
On Saturday, December 28, 2013 5= :06:50 AM UTC-5, stevo wrote:
How can "come" and "go" be distinguishe= d by aspects? Don't the aspects apply to each one equally? "Come" is 'towar= d the speaker', "go" is more general, but if contrasted with "come", it mea= ns 'away from the speaker'. 
The distinction in Lojban = is moot, since the destination (x2) and origin (x3) allow sidestepping the = whole "come/go" dichotomy. 

stevo


On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at= 2:24 AM, la arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com>= ; wrote:


On = Friday, December 20, 2013 6:31:55 PM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote:
(And for that matter, how do you even
> mark deixis (go/come distinction) in Lojban, anyway?)

With the deixis words ti, ta, or tu in x2 or x3. The go/come distinctio= n is=20
not universal; Hebrew instead contrasts enter/exit (ba'/tse').

"Come"/"go" can probably be sepa= rated with aspects.
"come" is rather mo'u klama or co'i klama.
"go" is ca'o klama
although of course we can have "coming" as ca'o co'i klama
However, one needs to understand the meaning behind what's being said= .
"Don't translate words but meaning!" as said in one tutorial in= the wiki.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups= .com.
To post to this group, send email to l= oj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt= _out.



--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu= do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
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