Received: from mail-qc0-f183.google.com ([209.85.216.183]:48867) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Vx4Mq-0003Rz-D2 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:36:41 -0800 Received: by mail-qc0-f183.google.com with SMTP id i8sf2310854qcq.0 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:36:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=KPbX4ycyE7c5hjvN4zk8ZQveQO3ZImwVDx0y+mB74z0=; b=sUU6FHtisT9f7AnWTk0FZX+TFQ5FwpqUF/c3xXTb7Arr8mAEgTifXGrns/v81gUUsk lgPFuafZdZ1w4EFwaeOpiE58MAe2UhvlOHuA4YauRbroxOnJZihOiGM4SgfeRlVWrPlq U5QP09yHDO1C6JMAsZSUD9xhk32CFRibMifWF4JUEY8bz0WksY5bJE4Q1GcxQSU50Vi6 lR7YFV7R8YYpxkLAPTN9z/zk0Q9ZyQNbrN/nPVEDeRfInAhqs2IqhLBMg/w9oLEiD0W0 8S3QKR/3brrzoa6Ow49PU1KX3pc+arVyJQYCxycXEI0F5DM1rrsaP0mZbR1b+sZ/grbZ AmXg== X-Received: by 10.50.8.42 with SMTP id o10mr833345iga.3.1388277385964; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:36:25 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.20.202 with SMTP id p10ls4588769ige.8.gmail; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:36:25 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.66.154.199 with SMTP id vq7mr17703651pab.5.1388277385326; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:36:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vb0-x234.google.com (mail-vb0-x234.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c02::234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z8si741660qcn.0.2013.12.28.16.36.25 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:36:25 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c02::234 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c02::234; Received: by mail-vb0-f52.google.com with SMTP id p5so5211848vbn.39 for ; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:36:25 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.202.65 with SMTP id kg1mr64782vec.59.1388277385022; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:36:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.186.136 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Dec 2013 16:35:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <3f955e44-a4ca-4c9c-ba07-ed82f6dcd1d8@googlegroups.com> <1631893.tefe0xbQy3@caracal> <330a2af5-bd31-4291-810f-58c6d8221a17@googlegroups.com> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:35:54 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Problems with gismu To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c02::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdc8bc86251f904eea184a4 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --047d7bdc8bc86251f904eea184a4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Yes, if the speaker gives that information separately or by context. stevo On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 6:33 PM, lorxus wrote: > In either of these cases, is it possible to know where the speaker is > speaking from? > > On Saturday, December 28, 2013 3:35:19 PM UTC-5, aionys wrote: >> >> On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 7:08 AM, lorxus wrote: >> >>> If that were so, there should be absolutely no difference between "come >>> towards me" and "go towards me". >>> >> >> In Lojban, there isn't. >> >> "One goes to a destination." >> {zo'e klama lo se klama} >> >> "On come from an origin." >> {zo'e klama fi lo te klama} >> >> >>> On Saturday, December 28, 2013 5:06:50 AM UTC-5, stevo wrote: >>> >>>> How can "come" and "go" be distinguished by aspects? Don't the aspects >>>> apply to each one equally? "Come" is 'toward the speaker', "go" is more >>>> general, but if contrasted with "come", it means 'away from the speaker'. >>>> The distinction in Lojban is moot, since the destination (x2) and >>>> origin (x3) allow sidestepping the whole "come/go" dichotomy. >>>> >>>> stevo >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 2:24 AM, la arxokuna wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, December 20, 2013 6:31:55 PM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> (And for that matter, how do you even >>>>>> > mark deixis (go/come distinction) in Lojban, anyway?) >>>>>> >>>>>> With the deixis words ti, ta, or tu in x2 or x3. The go/come >>>>>> distinction is >>>>>> not universal; Hebrew instead contrasts enter/exit (ba'/tse'). >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Come"/"go" can probably be separated with aspects. >>>>> "come" is rather *mo'u klama* or *co'i klama*. >>>>> "go" is *ca'o klama* >>>>> although of course we can have "coming" as *ca'o co'i klama* >>>>> However, one needs to understand the meaning behind what's being said. >>>>> "Don't translate words but meaning!" as said in one tutorial in the >>>>> wiki. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --047d7bdc8bc86251f904eea184a4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, if the speaker gives that information separately or by = context.=A0

stevo


On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 6:33 PM, lorxus <<= a href=3D"mailto:coronacoreanici@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">coronacoreani= ci@gmail.com> wrote:
In either of these cases, i= s it possible to know where the speaker is speaking from?

On Saturda= y, December 28, 2013 3:35:19 PM UTC-5, aionys wrote:
On = Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 7:08 AM, lorxus <coronac...@gm= ail.com> wrote:
If that were so, there shou= ld be absolutely no difference between "come towards me" and &quo= t;go towards me".

In Lojban, there isn't.
=
"One goes to a destination."
{zo'= ;e klama lo se klama}

"On come from an origin."=
{zo'e klama fi lo te klama}
=A0
On Saturday, December 28, 2013 = 5:06:50 AM UTC-5, stevo wrote:
How can "come" and "go&q= uot; be distinguished by aspects? Don't the aspects apply to each one e= qually? "Come" is 'toward the speaker', "go" is= more general, but if contrasted with "come", it means 'away = from the speaker'.=A0
The distinction in Lojban = is moot, since the destination (x2) and origin (x3) allow sidestepping the = whole "come/go" dichotomy.=A0

stevo


On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at= 2:24 AM, la arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com>= ; wrote:


On = Friday, December 20, 2013 6:31:55 PM UTC+4, Pierre Abbat wrote:
(And for that matter, how do you even
> mark deixis (go/come distinction) in Lojban, anyway?)

With the deixis words ti, ta, or tu in x2 or x3. The go/come distinctio= n is=20
not universal; Hebrew instead contrasts enter/exit (ba'/tse').

"Come"/"go" = can probably be separated with aspects.
"come" is rathe= r mo'u klama=A0or co'i klama.
"go"= ; is ca'o klama
although of course we can have "coming" as ca'o co= 9;i klama
However, one needs to understand the meaning behind= what's being said.
"Don't translate words but meani= ng!" as said in one tutorial in the wiki.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.




--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima= lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot = Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--047d7bdc8bc86251f904eea184a4--