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Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 21:16:24 +0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] lo fraso ma'oste
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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 Content preview:  On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>
    wrote: > On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 12:47:24 Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > >
    Here is french ma'oste ready for corrections. > > > > I remember myself translating
    parts of ma'oste into Russian and it was a > > nightmare. We definitely should
    have better definitions in order to > > correctly explain cmavo in other
   languages. But here is what we have so > far: > > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11LkhR_q-DQDrPQogjt9NKGkFlUbDbAMPuo8
    > > S1rI11JM/edit#gid=505130232 > > > > I used definitions of UI approved
    by Robin that show full scale only in > > notes instead of awkward > > "attitudinal:
    acceptance - blame." > > that confused newbies a lot. > > > > Anyway if anyone
    is willing to check the list and translate what hasnt > been > > translated
    welcome into that spreadsheet. > > There are lots of cmavo that have no simple
    translation (this is true of > any > two languages that aren't closely related;
    try defining English "for" in, > for > example, Ancient Greek). But some
   do have simple translations. "Ki'a" is > just > "hein", except that you can't
    negate "hein" in French. > > Why are there definition and gloss columns?
   Should "attitudinal: > confusion" go > in the definition column and "hein"
    in the gloss column? > [...] 
 
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On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:

> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 12:47:24 Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
> > Here is french ma'oste ready for corrections.
> >
> > I remember myself translating parts of ma'oste into Russian and it was a
> > nightmare. We definitely should have better definitions in order to
> > correctly explain cmavo in other languages. But here is what we have so
> far:
> >
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11LkhR_q-DQDrPQogjt9NKGkFlUbDbAMPuo8
> > S1rI11JM/edit#gid=505130232
> >
> > I used definitions of UI approved by Robin that show full scale only in
> > notes instead of awkward
> > "attitudinal: acceptance - blame."
> > that confused newbies a lot.
> >
> > Anyway if anyone is willing to check the list and translate what hasnt
> been
> > translated welcome into that spreadsheet.
>
> There are lots of cmavo that have no simple translation (this is true of
> any
> two languages that aren't closely related; try defining English "for" in,
> for
> example, Ancient Greek). But some do have simple translations. "Ki'a" is
> just
> "hein", except that you can't negate "hein" in French.
>
> Why are there definition and gloss columns? Should "attitudinal:
> confusion" go
> in the definition column and "hein" in the gloss column?
>


Turn on common sense? I think the true definition of {ki'a} should be
something like:

ki'a
definition: attitudinal: confusion; "Huh?"
notes: The full scale is: {ki'a} (confusion) - {ki'acu'i} - {ki'anai} ("I
understand")
gloss: Huh?

And e.g. the gloss for {u'u} should be "I am sorry". Otherwise we get have
these many cryptic definitions and few people willing to learn them.

But it's only my opinion.


> Pierre
> --
> li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du
> li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Pierre Abbat <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:phma@bezitopo.org" target=3D"_blank">phma@bezitopo.org</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"h5">On Tuesday, December 31,=
 2013 12:47:24 Gleki Arxokuna wrote:<br>

&gt; Here is french ma&#39;oste ready for corrections.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I remember myself translating parts of ma&#39;oste into Russian and it=
 was a<br>
&gt; nightmare. We definitely should have better definitions in order to<br=
>
&gt; correctly explain cmavo in other languages. But here is what we have s=
o far:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11LkhR_q-DQDrPQogjt9=
NKGkFlUbDbAMPuo8" target=3D"_blank">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/=
11LkhR_q-DQDrPQogjt9NKGkFlUbDbAMPuo8</a><br>
&gt; S1rI11JM/edit#gid=3D505130232<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I used definitions of UI approved by Robin that show full scale only i=
n<br>
&gt; notes instead of awkward<br>
&gt; &quot;attitudinal: acceptance - blame.&quot;<br>
&gt; that confused newbies a lot.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Anyway if anyone is willing to check the list and translate what hasnt=
 been<br>
&gt; translated welcome into that spreadsheet.<br>
<br>
</div></div>There are lots of cmavo that have no simple translation (this i=
s true of any<br>
two languages that aren&#39;t closely related; try defining English &quot;f=
or&quot; in, for<br>
example, Ancient Greek). But some do have simple translations. &quot;Ki&#39=
;a&quot; is just<br>
&quot;hein&quot;, except that you can&#39;t negate &quot;hein&quot; in Fren=
ch.<br>
<br>
Why are there definition and gloss columns? Should &quot;attitudinal: confu=
sion&quot; go<br>
in the definition column and &quot;hein&quot; in the gloss column?<br></blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><div><br></div>Turn on common sense? I think the tru=
e definition of {ki&#39;a} should be something like:<div><br></div><div>
ki&#39;a</div><div>definition: attitudinal: confusion; &quot;Huh?&quot;</di=
v><div>notes: The full scale is: {ki&#39;a} (confusion) - {ki&#39;acu&#39;i=
} - {ki&#39;anai} (&quot;I understand&quot;)</div><div>gloss: Huh?</div>
<div><br></div><div>And e.g. the gloss for {u&#39;u} should be &quot;I am s=
orry&quot;. Otherwise we get have these many cryptic definitions and few pe=
ople willing to learn them.</div><div><br></div><div>But it&#39;s only my o=
pinion.</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Pierre<br>
<span class=3D""><font color=3D"#888888">--<br>
li ze te&#39;a ci vu&#39;u ci bi&#39;e te&#39;a mu du<br>
li ci su&#39;i ze te&#39;a mu bi&#39;e vu&#39;u ci<br>
<br>
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</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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