Received: from mail-oa0-f57.google.com ([209.85.219.57]:36094) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1W0JVV-000819-DT for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:23:09 -0800 Received: by mail-oa0-f57.google.com with SMTP id o6sf720757oag.2 for ; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:22:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=EtWwvKjDAWD2mO7riVFLTSCFLBDh/YgBfoLy33hsnJ4=; b=E4zIsVLzxSdP6L3dw+lkUXbClJmxXY2jLuh//IXyZYqAI5mosRl9riz8puH2hJ5bnk GJ2uz2TZcwQvdtQXKqV5beV8C2XX6M9YqAFbmI5uG1M9tHSZh/siuMm+Sx3qKfpi4k28 AumAJIqleTKMSHALuAL8Rz93IvJWzCnCqksjjaLThFGKyG3aORZKiqoEzsKz1urpQAWK sFTgdAf1MYOg16Q1FBLCVaPck1MLSIGY3b2/hEIKeLUcd2YGuLBTY67PkhJOpakzo+ex 5+rpH7afjDAJPo1BHAVDZS0mFyM+uVvKtsfEbDA/aQRs53UH6VbiVDVAysJwinMvIWo3 r+GQ== X-Received: by 10.51.17.103 with SMTP id gd7mr332462igd.14.1389050567220; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:22:47 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.119.1 with SMTP id kq1ls1654073igb.3.canary; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:22:46 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.42.44.200 with SMTP id c8mr39459090icf.21.1389050566442; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:22:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x22f.google.com (mail-ie0-x22f.google.com [2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22f]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 48si2018269yhf.7.2014.01.06.15.22.46 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:22:46 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22f as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22f; Received: by mail-ie0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id x13so18754317ief.6 for ; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:22:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.230.73 with SMTP id jl9mr6298870icb.26.1389050566262; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:22:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.223.166 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jan 2014 15:22:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <52CB2C21.5080902@gmx.de> References: <52CB2C21.5080902@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 21:22:46 -0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] [oz] Abstractors From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: felipeg.assis@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22f as permitted sender) smtp.mail=felipeg.assis@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3dec293ca1704ef558960 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --001a11c3dec293ca1704ef558960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 6 January 2014 19:20, selpa'i wrote: > la .asiz. cusku di'e > > Let me start with a very specific issue: >> > > I'm sorry you had to write such a long post for what is going to be a > relatively simple answer. > I wrote to everyone. > The story is this: When I started translating Oz, I was still using {nu} > with predicates like {troci}, but some way in I finally made the switch t= o > {ka}. I thought I had replaced most {kakne lo nu} by now, but apparently > there still are a few left. > > A simple search and replace should purge this problem. > It is good that you bring this up, however, because I want people to know > that the intended form is indeed the {kakne lo ka} one, and anything else > in kakne2 is a left-over from before and should be considered a typo. > > I will list a few other predicates that I now thing should not use {nu}, > but which I used to use with {nu} (please feel free to add cases where > these are used with {nu} to the list of errata spreadsheet): > kakne, troci, snada, cpedu, minde, zukte, nitcu, bilga, certu, ... > > (keep in mind, though, that I do make intentional use of polymorphism > sometimes) > > I agree with the whole list! I will keep an eye from chapter 5 on; I was being liberal so far. This makes participation of lo ca pu'o tcidu in the Errata particularly useful. > By the way, there are other uses of {k=C4=81kne} that are more subtly re= lated >> to the issue. E.g., >> >> (10) {g=C4=81snu ro lo se k=C4=81kne be se va'u do} >> > > Yes. Same thing as before, though this sort of case is why I kept on usin= g > {nu} with the likes of {kakne} and {troci}. I thought it was too useful t= o > be able to say {lo se troci cu rinka lo nu morsi}. I finally got persuade= d > to change my mind, though, so this is no longer a sentence I would defend > as being entirely correct. > > You should say {lo te troci cu rinka lo nu morsi} or {lo nu troci cu rinka lo nu morsi}, right? On 6 January 2014 19:35, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 7:20 PM, selpa'i wrote: > >> la .asiz. cusku di'e >> >> (10) {g=C4=81snu ro lo se k=C4=81kne be se va'u do} >>> >> >> I would adjust that to >>> >>> (11) {ck=C4=81ji ro lo se k=C4=81kne be se va'u do}. >>> >> >> I will change it to {gasnu ro lo jai se kakne be se va'u do}. >> > > Wouldn't "zukte ro lo se kakne be se va'u do" work? > Agreed. selpa'i? mu'o mi'e .asiz. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --001a11c3dec293ca1704ef558960 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On 6 January 2014 19:20, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> = wrote:
la .asiz. cusku di'e<= div>
Let me start with a very specific issue:

I'm sorry you had to write such a long post for what is going to be a r= elatively simple answer.

I wrote to eve= ryone.
=C2=A0
The story is this: When I started translating Oz, I was still using {nu} wi= th predicates like {troci}, but some way in I finally made the switch to {k= a}. I thought I had replaced most {kakne lo nu} by now, but apparently ther= e still are a few left.


A simple search and replace should pur= ge this problem.
=C2=A0
It is good that you bring this up, however, because I want people to know t= hat the intended form is indeed the {kakne lo ka} one, and anything else in= kakne2 is a left-over from before and should be considered a typo.

I will list a few other predicates that I now thing should not use {nu}, bu= t which I used to use with {nu} (please feel free to add cases where these = are used with {nu} to the list of errata spreadsheet):
kakne, troci, snada, cpedu, minde, zukte, nitcu, bilga, certu, ...

(keep in mind, though, that I do make intentional use of polymorphism somet= imes)


I agree with the whole list! I will ke= ep an eye from chapter 5 on; I was being liberal so far. This makes partici= pation of lo ca pu'o tcidu in the Errata particularly useful.
=C2=A0
By the way, there are other uses of {k=C4=81kne} that are more subtly relat= ed
to the issue. E.g.,

(10) {g=C4=81snu ro lo se k=C4=81kne be se va'u do}

Yes. Same thing as before, though this sort of case is why I kept on using = {nu} with the likes of {kakne} and {troci}. I thought it was too useful to = be able to say {lo se troci cu rinka lo nu morsi}. I finally got persuaded = to change my mind, though, so this is no longer a sentence I would defend a= s being entirely correct.


You should say {lo te troci cu rinka l= o nu morsi} or {lo nu troci cu rinka lo nu morsi}, right?


=


On 6 Jan= uary 2014 19:35, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:



On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 7:20 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> = wrote:
l= a .asiz. cusku di'e

(10) {g=C4=81snu ro lo se k=C4=81kne be se va'u do}

<= div> I would adjust that to

(11) {ck=C4=81ji ro lo se k=C4=81kne be se va'u do}.

I will change it to {gasnu ro lo jai se kakne be se va'u do}.
=

Wouldn't "zukte ro lo se kakne be= se va'u do" work?=C2=A0

Agreed.=C2=A0 selpa'i?


mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

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