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Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 22:38:56 -0200
Message-ID: <CALMa68qdPQTpFU-f2i5u70Bb5SH4P-jZLEu1q+qOEuhft=J2yg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] [oz] Abstractors
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>
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On 6 January 2014 20:30, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

> la .asiz. cu cusku di'e
>
>  You should say {lo te troci cu rinka lo nu morsi} or {lo nu troci cu
>> rinka lo nu morsi}, right?
>>
>
> It would say the latter. It just makes the tried thing more "buried",
> which is what I disliked at first, but it's still better than {nu}.
>
> What I mean by buried is that "what I tried killed him" sounds different
> (to me) from "my attempt killed him". The former has the attempted thing
> right at the top, the latter doesn't mention it. It's a bit like {lo nu
> troci ma kau}, but I'm not sure that's quite it, though it sounds about
> right.
>
>
>
It depends on what exactly you are trying to say. From your description,
maybe _focus_ is what you want
  "It was my trying to open the door (instead of trying to do something
else) that killed him."

I would go with
  {lo nu mi troci lo ka kargau lo vorme kei kau cu rinka lo nu ko'a morsi},
as I find {kau} after non-question words just perfect for this kind of
thing.

Some would argue that {ba'e} is the correct choice, but I think emphasis is
a whole different thing, just confused with focus because of our myopic
reading of prosody. But that is a whole different story...

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On 6 January 2014 20:30, selpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">la .asiz. cu cusku di&#39;e<div class=3D"im"=
><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
You should say {lo te troci cu rinka lo nu morsi} or {lo nu troci cu<br>
rinka lo nu morsi}, right?<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
It would say the latter. It just makes the tried thing more &quot;buried&qu=
ot;, which is what I disliked at first, but it&#39;s still better than {nu}=
.<br>
<br>
What I mean by buried is that &quot;what I tried killed him&quot; sounds di=
fferent (to me) from &quot;my attempt killed him&quot;. The former has the =
attempted thing right at the top, the latter doesn&#39;t mention it. It&#39=
;s a bit like {lo nu troci ma kau}, but I&#39;m not sure that&#39;s quite i=
t, though it sounds about right.<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It depends on what exactly=
 you are trying to say. From your description, maybe _focus_ is what you wa=
nt<br>=A0 &quot;It was my trying to open the door (instead of trying to do =
something else) that killed him.&quot;<br>
<br></div><div>I would go with<br></div><div>=A0 {lo nu mi troci lo ka karg=
au lo vorme kei kau cu rinka lo nu ko&#39;a morsi},<br></div><div>as I find=
 {kau} after non-question words just perfect for this kind of thing.<br><br=
>
</div><div>Some would argue that {ba&#39;e} is the correct choice, but I th=
ink emphasis is a whole different thing, just confused with focus because o=
f our myopic reading of prosody. But that is a whole different story...<br>
<br>mu&#39;o<br>mi&#39;e .asiz.<br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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