Received: from mail-lb0-f186.google.com ([209.85.217.186]:63091) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1W0REx-0002lr-Sm for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 23:38:29 -0800 Received: by mail-lb0-f186.google.com with SMTP id z5sf1794lbh.23 for ; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 23:38:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=g6VEz8M2M+1TiuT6n+zDD77xKQppJ2oAme7gjJhlttg=; b=ohn3bC5VumpocuK1ZDeXawZsbBYMxh6FXo8i8y0cYkvJTiHb611+8s2WrprPO3EIdD bgJhEzF6U/IMZJrwaca3bU/k/FDlJhHtaciAnRgtv2CPLHrqCpAB3RGLf+P8F+ANX+3L 2B5OFlPhTao3NWfvev9kHKL3M3dO8MlFfN4MIDovH3FS4bLpIVdNXSjwFOZhg6KTyuWA jsMZwH9LdVor1bgxsoxMtiNhHRYpJ5tbl/3Wlz1DMRQWHLxJXiXrKSs94TsIExnAcj4z LVRbV3S+VV3kVqAvPVOYbSxJ/qOVN/rvXeopnfOfhaWyw0nLfzr75ai5QX0+GDbbpUP3 KSTA== X-Received: by 10.180.183.37 with SMTP id ej5mr184615wic.14.1389080292159; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 23:38:12 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.11.41 with SMTP id n9ls47461wib.5.gmail; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 23:38:11 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.14.114.67 with SMTP id b43mr42339437eeh.0.1389080291631; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 23:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x229.google.com (mail-wg0-x229.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::229]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ma13si96544wic.1.2014.01.06.23.38.11 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 06 Jan 2014 23:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::229 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::229; Received: by mail-wg0-f41.google.com with SMTP id y10so3341898wgg.2 for ; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 23:38:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.187.101 with SMTP id fr5mr4796892wjc.76.1389080291533; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 23:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.123.69 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jan 2014 23:38:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <0413ea89-18e2-42df-8725-f150e2eb34e9@googlegroups.com> References: <52CB3AC2.3070507@gmx.de> <0413ea89-18e2-42df-8725-f150e2eb34e9@googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 11:38:11 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] [oz] Use of elidable {cu} From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::229 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd6b9ac57692404ef5c75bd X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --047d7bd6b9ac57692404ef5c75bd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I can digest all that but ... {nu broda pu brode} parses while {broda pu brode} does not, that's what I'm kucli about. On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 11:15 AM, guskant wrote: > > {lo broda pu brode} is parsed differently between jbofi'e (yacc) and > camxes (peg): > > jbofi'e > [(lo broda KU) CU <> VAU] > > camxes > [(lo broda KU) (pu KU) CU <> VAU] > > It seems that jbofi'e is in accordance with CLL, while camxes isn't. > (cf. > CLL9.10: > An alternative to using =93ku=94 is to place the modal cmavo right before= the > selbri, following the =93cu=94 which often appears there. When a modal is > present, the =93cu=94 is almost never necessary. > CLL10.1: > The placement of a tense construct within a Lojban bridi is easy: right > before the selbri. It goes immediately after the =93cu=94, and can in fac= t > always replace the =93cu=94 (although in very complex sentences the rules= for > eliding terminators may be changed as a result). > ) > > > Le mardi 7 janvier 2014 11:07:38 UTC+9, xorxes a =E9crit : > >> >> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 9:16 PM, Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis < >> felipe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I feel that the natural place of tenses is just before the selbri, and >>> anywhere else they ought to be followed by either a sumti or {ku}. It i= s so >>> much simpler to add a {ku} whenever we want an out of place tense. I ha= ve >>> little hope that the grammar be reviewed, but don't you feel the same? >>> >> >> I did propose once that tags should have priority in their function as >> selbri tags over their function as sumti tags. >> >> > Then why are peg parsers against your proposition and jbofi'e and CLL? > Is it a bug, or an intended behavior? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --047d7bd6b9ac57692404ef5c75bd Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I can digest all that but ...
{nu broda pu brode} pars= es while {broda pu brode} does not, that's what I'm kucli about.


On T= ue, Jan 7, 2014 at 11:15 AM, guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com> wrote:

{lo broda pu brode= } is parsed differently between jbofi'e (yacc) and camxes (peg):
<= div>
jbofi'e
[(lo broda KU) CU <<pu brode>= > VAU]

camxes
[(lo broda KU) (pu KU) = CU <<brode>> VAU]

It seems that jbofi&= #39;e is in accordance with CLL, while camxes isn't.
(cf.
CLL9.10:
An alternative to using =93ku=94 is = to place the modal cmavo right before the selbri, following the =93cu=94 wh= ich often appears there. When a modal is present, the =93cu=94 is almost ne= ver necessary.
CLL10.1:
The placement of a tense construct within a Lojban = bridi is easy: right before the selbri. It goes immediately after the =93cu= =94, and can in fact always replace the =93cu=94 (although in very complex = sentences the rules for eliding terminators may be changed as a result).
)



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