Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 18:12:58 -0800 (PST)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] [oz] Use of elidable {cu}
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Le mercredi 8 janvier 2014 00:50:24 UTC+9, xorxes a =E9crit :
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis <
> felipe...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> In
>>
>> http://users.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/hobbies/lojban/grammar/lojban.=
peg.txt
>> (where can I find the file used by camxes?)
>> There is this rule
>>
>> term-1 <- sumti / ( !gek (tag / FA-clause free*) (sumti / KU-clause?=20
>> free*) ) / termset / NA-clause KU-clause free*
>>
>>
>> I don't have a firm grasp of formal grammars, so correct me if I am wron=
g.
>>
>> 1. This rule is relevant.
>> 2. If we make the KU-clause mandatory, instead of optional, my mental=20
>> grammar is realized.
>>
>> term-1 <- sumti / ( !gek (tag / FA-clause free*) (sumti / KU-clause=20
>> free*) ) / termset / NA-clause KU-clause free*
>>
>
> That's one way of dealing with it, although for my taste it has the=20
> disadvantage of making a terminator non-elidable, which is exceptional.=
=20
> Also, because of the silly restrictions on compound tags, you would have =
to=20
> be very aware of which tags can be combined without ku and which strings =
of=20
> tags would require ku insertions to make them work.
>
> The way I would rather do it is:
>
> term-1 <- sumti / ( !gek (tag !selbri-1 / FA-clause free*) (sumti /=20
> KU-clause? free*) ) / termset / NA-clause KU-clause free*
>
> which means that the tag will not be absorbed as a term if it's directly=
=20
> followed by a selbri-1 (in which case it will be absorbed by the selbri=
=20
> rule),
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
>
I agree with xorxes.
As for zasni gerna: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/zasni+gerna

term <- FA#? sumti / tag? sumti / FA# KU#? / tag KU#? / NA# KU#? / gek=20
term+ VAU#? GI# term+ VAU#?

should be replaced with=20

term <- FA#? sumti / tag? sumti / FA# KU#? / tag !selbri KU#? / NA# KU#? /=
=20
gek term+ VAU#? GI# term+ VAU#?

, shouldn't it?

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>Le mercredi 8 janvier 2014 00:50:24 UTC+9, xorxes =
a =E9crit&nbsp;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin=
-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><br><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 12:27=
 PM, Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:"=
 target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"pvS0L15UTL4J" onmousedown=3D"th=
is.href=3D'javascript:';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'javascript:';=
return true;">felipe...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>In<br><a href=3D"http://us=
ers.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/hobbies/lojban/grammar/lojban.peg.txt" tar=
get=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75ht=
tp%3A%2F%2Fusers.digitalkingdom.org%2F~rlpowell%2Fhobbies%2Flojban%2Fgramma=
r%2Flojban.peg.txt\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEbGz5dW-XYcHzwjRiB0KO=
Orrx4uw';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\=
75http%3A%2F%2Fusers.digitalkingdom.org%2F~rlpowell%2Fhobbies%2Flojban%2Fgr=
ammar%2Flojban.peg.txt\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEbGz5dW-XYcHzwjRi=
B0KOOrrx4uw';return true;">http://users.digitalkingdom.<wbr>org/~rlpowell/h=
obbies/lojban/<wbr>grammar/lojban.peg.txt</a><br>
(where can I find the file used by camxes?)<br>
There is this rule<br><br>term-1 &lt;- sumti / ( !gek (tag / FA-clause free=
*) (sumti / KU-clause? free*) ) / termset / NA-clause KU-clause free*<br><b=
r><br>I don't have a firm grasp of formal grammars, so correct me if I am w=
rong.<br>

<br>1. This rule is relevant.<br>2. If we make the KU-clause mandatory, ins=
tead of optional, my mental grammar is realized.<br><br>term-1 &lt;- sumti =
/ ( !gek (tag / FA-clause free*) (sumti / KU-clause free*) ) / termset / NA=
-clause KU-clause free*<br>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That's one way of =
dealing with it, although for my taste it has the disadvantage of making a =
terminator non-elidable, which is exceptional. Also, because of the silly r=
estrictions on compound tags, you would have to be very aware of which tags=
 can be combined without ku and which strings of tags would require ku inse=
rtions to make them work.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The way I would rather do it is:</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>term-1 &lt;- sumti / ( !gek (tag !selbri-1 / FA-clause free*) (sumti / K=
U-clause? free*) ) / termset / NA-clause KU-clause free*<br></div></div>
<br></div><div>which means that the tag will not be absorbed as a term if i=
t's directly followed by a selbri-1 (in which case it will be absorbed by t=
he selbri rule),</div><div>
<br></div><div>mu'o mi'e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div>I agree with&nbsp;xorxes.</div><div>As for zasni gerna: htt=
p://www.lojban.org/tiki/zasni+gerna</div><div><br></div><div>term &lt;- FA#=
? sumti / tag? sumti / FA# KU#? / tag KU#? / NA# KU#? / gek term+ VAU#? GI#=
 term+ VAU#?</div><div><br></div><div>should be replaced with&nbsp;</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>term &lt;- FA#? sumti / tag? sumti / FA# KU#? / tag !selb=
ri KU#? / NA# KU#? / gek term+ VAU#? GI# term+ VAU#?</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>, shouldn't it?</div><div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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