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Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 23:00:47 +0100
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Subject: Re: [lojban] [oz] {ve vimcu} vs. {te zilvi'u} vs. {se sumji}
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 Content preview:  la .asiz. cu cusku di'e > coi selpa'i .u'i ke'u pe'i mi'e
   ba'e *la* selpa'i ;) > I noticed you used {ve vimcu}, and sometimes {te zilvi'u},
    to translate > the idea of "remainder", as in > (1) {mi'a sèpli pi ro lo
   ve vìmcu be fi lo mùnje} > (2) {lo te zilvì'u be lo prènu cu màrji lo blànu
    tàxfu} [...] 
 
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la .asiz. cu cusku di'e
> coi selpa'i

.u'i ke'u pe'i mi'e ba'e *la* selpa'i ;)

> I noticed you used {ve vimcu}, and sometimes {te zilvi'u}, to translate
> the idea of "remainder", as in
> (1) {mi'a s=E8pli pi ro lo ve v=ECmcu be fi lo m=F9nje}
> (2) {lo te zilv=EC'u be lo pr=E8nu cu m=E0rji lo bl=E0nu t=E0xfu}

Right. I found it a bit cumbersome.

> I felt like I had to ask:
>   1. How do you feel about using {se sumji} instead?

I'm not sure. I find {se sumji} a bit confusing, because of how the=20
places get rearranged. Maybe I could get used to it, though.

>   2. Why exactly did you sometimes used {vimcu}, and sometimes
> {zilvi'u}? I am equally unable to identify a possible vimcu1, in both
> examples above.

Probably no reason. I just went with what I felt was right at the=20
moment. I think {zilvi'u} is better than plain {vimcu} in most cases,=20
because there is rarely anyone doing any removing.

> I personally like {lo se sumji be ko'a [bei zo'e]} a lot, as using
> {zo'e} to refer to something recently mentioned is very natural, as in
>   {ja'o la'e di'u kr=ECnu}.

I think I'm starting to like the {se sumji} idea. Let's see...

    (3) lo se sumji be lo prenu cu simlu lo ka se tolzdi
        "The remaining people seemed bored." (everyone else had already=20
left)

One just needs to get used to the order
    "remainder -- original sum -- subtrahend"

And the different sumti seem to just differ in tense at first glance=20
(which might add to the confusion):

    (4) lo se sumji be lo pu zvati bei lo ca na zvati
        "the remainder of those that were there minus those that now=20
aren't there"

But the advantage is that it has nothing to do with the idea of agentive=20
removal.

mi'e la selpa'i mu'o

--=20
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