Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 03:45:48 -0800 (PST)
From: iesk <pa.fae@gmx.de>
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Subject: [lojban] Re: The hardest word to translate in Kafka's Metamorphosis
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Interesting.

'lo nu binxo' has {lo rigni cinki}. Considering the thoughts expressed in=
=20
the Slate article, I'm tempted to read {lo cinki rigni} instead.=20
'Ungeziefer' could also mean a rat, for example, but from the story it is=
=20
clear that Gregor is bug-like, so 'insect-kind-of-repulsive-thing' might=20
actually work.

In the original, it is 'ungeheueres Ungeziefer', with the adjective=20
somewhat vague as well. One Esperanto translation (Lutermano/Luttermann,=20
1996) has 'monstra fiinsekto', and the English translators go for=20
'monstrous', as well. The adjective 'ungeheuer' means something like=20
'astonishingly large or impressive, awe- or fear-inspiring'. I think this=
=20
is lost in the Lojban. I don't know how to translate it. I think {barda},=
=20
{terpa}, and {mutce} are related to 'ungeheuer'. (The noun 'das Ungeheuer'=
=20
is indeed close to 'the monster', monsters generally being 'ungeheuer'=20
creatures.)

What could be a Lojban translation for 'ungeheueres Ungeziefer'?

Btw, I think {lo nu binxo} works surprisingly well for 'die Verwandlung'=20
(which is not a fancy or learned word like, eg, 'Metamorphose', either). It=
=20
is simple and general. (Lutermano notes that he rejected 'metamorfozo' for=
=20
that reason. He has 'transformi=C4=9Do' instead. Hm.)

Le vendredi 10 janvier 2014 15:17:58 UTC+1, gejyspa a =C3=A9crit :
>
>
> http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2014/01/kafka_books_susan_bernof=
sky_translation_of_the_metamorphosis_and_jay_cantor.html
>
>   (germane because of xorxes' translation into lojban)
>       --gejyspa
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Interesting.<br><br>'lo nu binxo' has {lo rigni cinki}. Co=
nsidering the thoughts expressed in the Slate article, I'm tempted to read =
{lo cinki rigni} instead. 'Ungeziefer' could also mean a rat, for example, =
but from the story it is clear that Gregor is bug-like, so 'insect-kind-of-=
repulsive-thing' might actually work.<br><br>In the original, it is 'ungehe=
ueres Ungeziefer', with the adjective somewhat vague as well. One Esperanto=
 translation (Lutermano/Luttermann, 1996) has 'monstra fiinsekto', and the =
English translators go for 'monstrous', as well. The adjective 'ungeheuer' =
means something like 'astonishingly large or impressive, awe- or fear-inspi=
ring'. I think this is lost in the Lojban. I don't know how to translate it=
. I think {barda}, {terpa}, and {mutce} are related to 'ungeheuer'. (The no=
un 'das Ungeheuer' is indeed close to 'the monster', monsters generally bei=
ng 'ungeheuer' creatures.)<br><br>What could be a Lojban translation for 'u=
ngeheueres Ungeziefer'?<br><br>Btw, I think {lo nu binxo} works surprisingl=
y well for 'die Verwandlung' (which is not a fancy or learned word like, eg=
, 'Metamorphose', either). It is simple and general. (Lutermano notes that =
he rejected 'metamorfozo' for that reason. He has 'transformi=C4=9Do' inste=
ad. Hm.)<br><br>Le vendredi 10 janvier 2014 15:17:58 UTC+1, gejyspa a =C3=
=A9crit&nbsp;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-l=
eft: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><a href=3D"http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2014/01/kafka_books_su=
san_bernofsky_translation_of_the_metamorphosis_and_jay_cantor.html" target=
=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%=
3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Farticles%2Farts%2Fbooks%2F2014%2F01%2Fkafka_books_s=
usan_bernofsky_translation_of_the_metamorphosis_and_jay_cantor.html\46sa\75=
D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHXcTFSghWX2III_rzCWmWl9SpDqw';return true;" onc=
lick=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.c=
om%2Farticles%2Farts%2Fbooks%2F2014%2F01%2Fkafka_books_susan_bernofsky_tran=
slation_of_the_metamorphosis_and_jay_cantor.html\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg=
\75AFQjCNHXcTFSghWX2III_rzCWmWl9SpDqw';return true;">http://www.slate.com/a=
rticles/<wbr>arts/books/2014/01/kafka_<wbr>books_susan_bernofsky_<wbr>trans=
lation_of_the_<wbr>metamorphosis_and_jay_cantor.<wbr>html</a><br>
<div><br></div><div>&nbsp; (germane because of xorxes' translation into loj=
ban)</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --gejyspa</div><div><br></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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