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Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 12:24:35 -0200
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Quoting with ZOI can be ambigious
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Wuzzy <almikes@aol.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 11:00:27 -0200
> Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
> > (2) and (3) are not possible interpretations, because the initial
> > delimiter word must be followed by a pause (represented either by a
> > space or by a dot) and the final delimiter word must be preceded by a
> > pause (represented by either a space or a dot).
> But dots are entirely optional.
>

They can always be replaced by a space, but they can't be eliminated
altogether without leaving a space behind.


> Please show me the part of the Reference Grammar where it says that a
> space represents a pause.
>

It shouldn't say that any space representa a pause. Not every space
represents a pause, only those spaces used to replace a dot. In order to
know which spaces are replacing a dot and which are not, you need to know
the rules for obligatory pauses (a space before a word that starts with a
vowel represents a pause, a space after a word that ends in a consonant
represents a pause, etc.)


> I really don=92t believe this, otherwise, texts =93i se ni'i bo=94 would =
be
> equivalent to =93i.se.ni'i.bo=94
>

Those texts do mean exactly the same thing.


> But your variant of the proposal seems (!) okay as well. I am now
> arguing more from a practical than from a grammatical point of view.
>

ZOI was always something of a kludge. It is the only part of the grammar
that cannot be handled by PEG (or by any of the other formal grammars),

The rules that the camxes parser follows are not exactly those of CLL. It
doesn't require pauses unless they are required to identify the delimiter
word. So for example "zoi titati" is accepted,

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Wuzzy <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:almikes@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">almikes@aol.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 11:00:27 -0200<br>
Jorge Llamb=EDas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">jjllambias@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; (2) and (3) are not possible interpretations, because the initial<br>
&gt; delimiter word must be followed by a pause (represented either by a<br=
>
&gt; space or by a dot) and the final delimiter word must be preceded by a<=
br>
&gt; pause (represented by either a space or a dot).<br>
</div>But dots are entirely optional.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>T=
hey can always be replaced by a space, but they can&#39;t be eliminated alt=
ogether without leaving a space behind.</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">


Please show me the part of the Reference Grammar where it says that a<br>
space represents a pause.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It shouldn=
9;t say that any space representa a pause. Not every space represents a pau=
se, only those spaces used to replace a dot. In order to know which spaces =
are replacing a dot and which are not, you need to know the rules for oblig=
atory pauses (a space before a word that starts with a vowel represents a p=
ause, a space after a word that ends in a consonant represents a pause, etc=
.)=A0</div>

<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I really don=92t believe this, otherwise, texts =93i se ni&#39;i bo=94 woul=
d be<br>
equivalent to =93<a href=3D"http://i.se.ni" target=3D"_blank">i.se.ni</a>&#=
39;<a href=3D"http://i.bo" target=3D"_blank">i.bo</a>=94<br></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div>Those texts do mean exactly the same thing.</div><div>=A0=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


But your variant of the proposal seems (!) okay as well. I am now<br>
arguing more from a practical than from a grammatical point of view.<br></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div>ZOI was always something of a kludge. It is t=
he only part of the grammar that cannot be handled by PEG (or by any of the=
 other formal grammars),=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>The rules that the camxes parser follows are not exactl=
y those of CLL. It doesn&#39;t require pauses unless they are required to i=
dentify the delimiter word. So for example &quot;zoi titati&quot; is accept=
ed, =A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div><br>=
</div></div>

<p></p>

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