Received: from mail-vc0-f187.google.com ([209.85.220.187]:56846) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1W8XLq-0005Hf-Vu for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:47:10 -0800 Received: by mail-vc0-f187.google.com with SMTP id ld13sf495301vcb.4 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:46:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=b9Q13tG6kUbg84UMpoJQRZSEAajvDxfOSzHjdBwBRPc=; b=oOq8X93ZBoWPmwbP9qjKQGkoLEVbhV4mlI9B/yusDOgWVDaibfqjasg1xBKEvso5Pe KZZpmZBkVaykdY5gMQkYpfZdb+iTIk4POAwJFWOEMb9VcqEsDHKlhzGJ6pdVF1JIttKp okSyJhg7mFr1lCTLFsCevKLJTZRaPu/LHDAafauFT6dCOktU/uIiV8OeGO9+5xylZoBL yLBww7OXW16SrubRE48WFQnlUBwh6/dmAr4kqonufu3Rjb6q7jW2Ix4Xbr8epucwtjv8 qtXZGCWDYxpDL+/hnG/EzImXFpGmuDzj5wmBBwxIifjiHonkTkLybUrREj2OTmOJYZbK P7Sw== X-Received: by 10.140.107.138 with SMTP id h10mr152865qgf.2.1391010408574; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:46:48 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.36.7 with SMTP id o7ls173272qgo.15.gmail; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:46:48 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.23.170 with SMTP id n10mr2047025vef.25.1391010408017; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:46:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-x22b.google.com (mail-qc0-x22b.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22b]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t4si646546qcl.3.2014.01.29.07.46.47 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:46:48 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22b as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22b; Received: by mail-qc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id n7so2956521qcx.16 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:46:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.33.198 with SMTP id j64mr12436068qgj.14.1391010407885; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:46:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.3.3 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:46:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 10:46:47 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: About the difference in different semantic classifications (was: [lojban] "salty") From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1139b4003dcf6f04f11dd9c6 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --001a1139b4003dcf6f04f11dd9c6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 But that argument is implicitly limiting a se vrusi to one of the five primary tastes. Not only can it be things like lo slari or lo kurki, it can be lo tsapi or lo cpina or even lo jipci, lo rectu, lo ladru or even . And we would (could) call the latter four in English "chickeny, meaty, dairy, metallic". To say that something is salty is to assert that it tastes like salt (NaCl and friends). It is not necessary to create a special word for it. --gejyspa On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > Once there was a question what organisms belong to {curnu}. > The answer is that even snaked might be called "worms". If you don't like > it invent a new classification. > > A more convincing example are words for taste: > We can classify substances into: acids, alkali, sugars, salts etc. > And we can classify them into: sweet, sour, umami, salty ... > > They are completely different and almost never intersect. > Almost. > Because "salty" coincides with "alkali" as alkali can be made the > prototype of salty taste. Thus we need the same word for both > classifications. > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michael Turniansky > Date: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:35 PM > Subject: Re: [lojban] "salty" > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > > > I also completely dislike the idea of adding experimental gismu, at > least until baseline is finally lifted (and even then, in most cases), > except in cases where absolutely necessary (and sarni and salni ain't > them). In any case, your (lorxus'?) original argument is at best specious, > because just like in languages such as English, the default for tersilna is > zo'e, which means, in normal conversation, when you say "ko dunda lo silna > mi" or "lo rectu cu se vrusi lo ka silna", your listener is going to assume > "...be fi lo sodna be lo ratni be li papa kuku joi lo kliru be lo ratni be > li paze", unless you specify otherwise, or you are working in lab with e.g. > radium salts, or your listener is insane. > > There is really no need for people to always try to complicate matters > by multiplying gismu (or using overly precise lujvo or fu'ivla) when not > necessary, > > --gejyspa > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --001a1139b4003dcf6f04f11dd9c6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2=A0 But that argument is implicitly limiting a se vrusi= to one of the five primary tastes. =C2=A0Not only can it be things like lo= slari or lo kurki, it can be lo tsapi or lo cpina or even lo jipci, lo rec= tu, lo ladru or even . =C2=A0And we would (could) call the latter four in E= nglish "chickeny, meaty, dairy, metallic". To say that something = is salty is to assert that it tastes like salt (NaCl and friends). =C2=A0It= is not necessary to create a special word for it.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gejyspa



On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <glek= i.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
Once there was a question w= hat organisms belong to {curnu}.
The answer is that even snaked might b= e called "worms". If you don't like it invent a new classific= ation.

A more convincing example are words for taste:
We can classify su= bstances into: acids, alkali, sugars, salts etc.
And we can class= ify them into: sweet, sour, umami, salty ...

They are completely different and almost never intersect.
Almost.=
Because "salty" coincides with "alkali" = as alkali can be made the prototype of salty taste. Thus we need the same w= ord for both classifications.


---------- Forwarded mes= sage ----------
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] "salty"= ;
To: lojba= n@googlegroups.com


=C2=A0 I also completely= dislike the idea of adding experimental gismu, at least until baseline is = finally lifted =C2=A0(and even then, in most cases), except in cases where = absolutely necessary (and sarni and salni ain't them). =C2=A0In any cas= e, your (lorxus'?) original argument is at best specious, because just = like in languages such as English, the default for tersilna is zo'e, wh= ich means, in normal conversation, when you say "ko dunda =C2=A0lo sil= na mi" or "lo rectu cu se vrusi lo ka silna", your listener = is going to assume "...be fi lo sodna be lo ratni be li papa kuku joi = lo kliru=C2=A0be lo ratni be li paze", unless you specify otherwise, o= r you are working in lab with e.g. radium salts, or your listener is insane= . =C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is really no need for people to always t= ry to complicate matters by multiplying gismu (or using overly precise lujv= o or fu'ivla) when not necessary,

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gejyspa

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