Received: from mail-qa0-f64.google.com ([209.85.216.64]:54878) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1W8XP1-0005K4-Dn for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:50:24 -0800 Received: by mail-qa0-f64.google.com with SMTP id cm18sf501354qab.19 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:50:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=iAXTvUcILIWWTrP4YYMbGAXOVMKdJN6ZsntW/gXqBnc=; b=YnbA9skjiZf+gZy9WiiDQ+vswpqP3g1m2pj7eeeZpD7ZP7dK/MrQm6HcS8VN8gwXQ/ TSI7tinRoR4V7iLL1MY68MMcYQ/VKFu60W8JKyWd8IcER6BbcoQLc4y8/V62YDm+smwC R1BA25gAwGnxGt57wqn+6UTsU9cMd7tdnVaqWPdMd5DUFrzmM0IqKn/sL4MFzsY6yEgV NdSfBEFNuzPIxgxSq4tKfQlZc1VTuyQB89xkvaVZ788qurw1F9lQHA1eoCbGiPK3uVV0 jrt+oYjCPFfSxcY6OU3O8MKIGw806jmW4YR98j3X3aHG8cdY/7LuDh+yAnZAcgMdgPnL 1s9A== X-Received: by 10.50.13.7 with SMTP id d7mr349241igc.16.1391010605099; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:50:05 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.93.73 with SMTP id cs9ls338790igb.41.gmail; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:50:04 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.42.70.142 with SMTP id f14mr2702179icj.6.1391010604788; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:50:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-x229.google.com (mail-qa0-x229.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c00::229]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t4si649111qcl.3.2014.01.29.07.50.04 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:50:04 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c00::229 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c00::229; Received: by mail-qa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id w8so2655301qac.28 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:50:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.33.198 with SMTP id j64mr12465602qgj.14.1391010604660; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:50:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.96.3.3 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 07:50:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 10:50:04 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: About the difference in different semantic classifications (was: [lojban] "salty") From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c00::229 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1139b400f8582a04f11de41c X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --001a1139b400f8582a04f11de41c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 ...and btw, It was you who asserted curnu might include snakes, no one else. snake are since. Curnu are limited properly to inveterbrates. If a kid called a since a curnu, you would correct him, just like if an glibau child called a snake a worm. --gejyspa On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > But that argument is implicitly limiting a se vrusi to one of the five > primary tastes. Not only can it be things like lo slari or lo kurki, it > can be lo tsapi or lo cpina or even lo jipci, lo rectu, lo ladru or even . > And we would (could) call the latter four in English "chickeny, meaty, > dairy, metallic". To say that something is salty is to assert that it > tastes like salt (NaCl and friends). It is not necessary to create a > special word for it. > > --gejyspa > > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Once there was a question what organisms belong to {curnu}. >> The answer is that even snaked might be called "worms". If you don't like >> it invent a new classification. >> >> A more convincing example are words for taste: >> We can classify substances into: acids, alkali, sugars, salts etc. >> And we can classify them into: sweet, sour, umami, salty ... >> >> They are completely different and almost never intersect. >> Almost. >> Because "salty" coincides with "alkali" as alkali can be made the >> prototype of salty taste. Thus we need the same word for both >> classifications. >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Michael Turniansky >> Date: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [lojban] "salty" >> To: lojban@googlegroups.com >> >> >> I also completely dislike the idea of adding experimental gismu, at >> least until baseline is finally lifted (and even then, in most cases), >> except in cases where absolutely necessary (and sarni and salni ain't >> them). In any case, your (lorxus'?) original argument is at best specious, >> because just like in languages such as English, the default for tersilna is >> zo'e, which means, in normal conversation, when you say "ko dunda lo silna >> mi" or "lo rectu cu se vrusi lo ka silna", your listener is going to assume >> "...be fi lo sodna be lo ratni be li papa kuku joi lo kliru be lo ratni be >> li paze", unless you specify otherwise, or you are working in lab with e.g. >> radium salts, or your listener is insane. >> >> There is really no need for people to always try to complicate >> matters by multiplying gismu (or using overly precise lujvo or fu'ivla) >> when not necessary, >> >> --gejyspa >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --001a1139b400f8582a04f11de41c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
...and btw, It was you who asserted curnu might include sn= akes, no one else. =C2=A0snake are since. =C2=A0Curnu are limited properly = to inveterbrates. =C2=A0If a kid called a since a curnu, you would correct = him, just like if an glibau child called a snake a worm.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--gejyspa



On Wed, = Jan 29, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 But that argument is= implicitly limiting a se vrusi to one of the five primary tastes. =C2=A0No= t only can it be things like lo slari or lo kurki, it can be lo tsapi or lo= cpina or even lo jipci, lo rectu, lo ladru or even . =C2=A0And we would (c= ould) call the latter four in English "chickeny, meaty, dairy, metalli= c". To say that something is salty is to assert that it tastes like sa= lt (NaCl and friends). =C2=A0It is not necessary to create a special word f= or it.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gejyspa



On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at= 1:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
Once there was a question w= hat organisms belong to {curnu}.
The answer is that even snaked might b= e called "worms". If you don't like it invent a new classific= ation.

A more convincing example are words for taste:
We can classify su= bstances into: acids, alkali, sugars, salts etc.
And we can class= ify them into: sweet, sour, umami, salty ...

They are completely different and almost never intersect.
Almost.=
Because "salty" coincides with "alkali" = as alkali can be made the prototype of salty taste. Thus we need the same w= ord for both classifications.


---------- Forwarded mes= sage ----------
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] "salty"= ;
To: lojba= n@googlegroups.com


=C2=A0 I also completely= dislike the idea of adding experimental gismu, at least until baseline is = finally lifted =C2=A0(and even then, in most cases), except in cases where = absolutely necessary (and sarni and salni ain't them). =C2=A0In any cas= e, your (lorxus'?) original argument is at best specious, because just = like in languages such as English, the default for tersilna is zo'e, wh= ich means, in normal conversation, when you say "ko dunda =C2=A0lo sil= na mi" or "lo rectu cu se vrusi lo ka silna", your listener = is going to assume "...be fi lo sodna be lo ratni be li papa kuku joi = lo kliru=C2=A0be lo ratni be li paze", unless you specify otherwise, o= r you are working in lab with e.g. radium salts, or your listener is insane= . =C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is really no need for people to always t= ry to complicate matters by multiplying gismu (or using overly precise lujv= o or fu'ivla) when not necessary,

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gejyspa

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