Received: from mail-oa0-f64.google.com ([209.85.219.64]:55524) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1W8YrS-0005hp-R2 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:23:45 -0800 Received: by mail-oa0-f64.google.com with SMTP id g12sf537975oah.9 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:23:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=hb3SxsSpAsXlp9+Bj329ixJ4LipMFlIjJdkCgHhnJ+U=; b=zBgEJT+XwOm1d7LNnEB3hP+GhbR+M7p0RC2wQXP/TB3LHUu9pNuQADU4hRN14M0heC xWtK+/6nKVd+sAL4YKASm+mlbXkv4hhAee1myyNRkAiQ7GHzwX0TvnOmIqKXYFjiCXGz LHIKQbBRIwsqebDY6yumrcBLiK2RMNAJM5adzqbDE/q35C/gWf7nK1viPnrWuZEsPt8E 0cdesWrnG4SbgCP0oPxMpaNJOw5UC9YrxR/pI2hsX42J3Cbg/t9GJdrZvG7KPsE9o5OL xJKSZPouE6qzKv68o+/PbOxrxvsipg/Gg1nk6/B6Y1zP5cQoq6LjsZneVIKbvnzCa4GM +ubw== X-Received: by 10.182.191.98 with SMTP id gx2mr60565obc.22.1391016212737; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:23:32 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.22.77 with SMTP id b13ls74783obf.36.gmail; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:23:32 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.186.73 with SMTP id fi9mr3341268obc.48.1391016212373; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-x22b.google.com (mail-ve0-x22b.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22b]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c1si702392vdv.0.2014.01.29.09.23.31 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:23:31 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22b as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22b; Received: by mail-ve0-f171.google.com with SMTP id pa12so1447662veb.30 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:23:31 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.221.66.73 with SMTP id xp9mr1798919vcb.27.1391016209746; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:23:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.33.230 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:22:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: MorphemeAddict Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 12:22:58 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: About the difference in different semantic classifications (was: [lojban] "salty") To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113642e60f118e04f11f33f1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --001a113642e60f118e04f11f33f1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Let's worry about possible new primary tastes when they're discovered. Umami may be the last one, and it took a long time after the first four were long known for it to be discovered (in 1908). Besides, if there are more than five primary tastes, how does that affect the gejyspa's sentence "But that argument is implicitly limiting a se vrusi to one of the [add number here, or not] primary tastes."? stevo On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: > >> But that argument is implicitly limiting a se vrusi to one of the five >> primary tastes. >> > > why five? there can be more primary tastes. > > >> Not only can it be things like lo slari or lo kurki, it can be lo tsapi >> or lo cpina or even lo jipci, lo rectu, lo ladru or even . And we would >> (could) call the latter four in English "chickeny, meaty, dairy, metallic". >> To say that something is salty is to assert that it tastes like salt (NaCl >> and friends). It is not necessary to create a special word for it. >> >> --gejyspa >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Once there was a question what organisms belong to {curnu}. >>> The answer is that even snaked might be called "worms". If you don't >>> like it invent a new classification. >>> >>> A more convincing example are words for taste: >>> We can classify substances into: acids, alkali, sugars, salts etc. >>> And we can classify them into: sweet, sour, umami, salty ... >>> >>> They are completely different and almost never intersect. >>> Almost. >>> Because "salty" coincides with "alkali" as alkali can be made the >>> prototype of salty taste. Thus we need the same word for both >>> classifications. >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Michael Turniansky >>> Date: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:35 PM >>> Subject: Re: [lojban] "salty" >>> To: lojban@googlegroups.com >>> >>> >>> I also completely dislike the idea of adding experimental gismu, at >>> least until baseline is finally lifted (and even then, in most cases), >>> except in cases where absolutely necessary (and sarni and salni ain't >>> them). In any case, your (lorxus'?) original argument is at best specious, >>> because just like in languages such as English, the default for tersilna is >>> zo'e, which means, in normal conversation, when you say "ko dunda lo silna >>> mi" or "lo rectu cu se vrusi lo ka silna", your listener is going to assume >>> "...be fi lo sodna be lo ratni be li papa kuku joi lo kliru be lo ratni be >>> li paze", unless you specify otherwise, or you are working in lab with e.g. >>> radium salts, or your listener is insane. >>> >>> There is really no need for people to always try to complicate >>> matters by multiplying gismu (or using overly precise lujvo or fu'ivla) >>> when not necessary, >>> >>> --gejyspa >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --001a113642e60f118e04f11f33f1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Let's worry about possible new primary tastes = when they're discovered. Umami may be the last one, and it took a long = time after the first four were long known for it to be discovered (in 1908)= .=C2=A0
Besides, if there are more than five primary tastes, how does that = affect the gejyspa's sentence "But that argume= nt is implicitly limiting a se vrusi to one of the [add number here, or not= ] primary tastes."?

stevo




On = Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@g= mail.com> wrote:



On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 But that argument is implicitly li= miting a se vrusi to one of the five primary tastes.

why five? there can be more primary tastes.
=
=C2=A0
=C2=A0Not only can it be things like lo slari or lo kurki= , it can be lo tsapi or lo cpina or even lo jipci, lo rectu, lo ladru or ev= en . =C2=A0And we would (could) call the latter four in English "chick= eny, meaty, dairy, metallic". To say that something is salty is to ass= ert that it tastes like salt (NaCl and friends). =C2=A0It is not necessary = to create a special word for it.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gejyspa



On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
Once there was a question what organisms = belong to {curnu}.
The answer is that even snaked might be called "worms". If you do= n't like it invent a new classification.

A more convincing example are words for taste:
We can classify su= bstances into: acids, alkali, sugars, salts etc.
And we can class= ify them into: sweet, sour, umami, salty ...

They are completely different and almost never intersect.
Almost.=
Because "salty" coincides with "alkali" = as alkali can be made the prototype of salty taste. Thus we need the same w= ord for both classifications.


---------- Forwarded mes= sage ----------
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] "salty"= ;
To: lojba= n@googlegroups.com


=C2=A0 I also completely= dislike the idea of adding experimental gismu, at least until baseline is = finally lifted =C2=A0(and even then, in most cases), except in cases where = absolutely necessary (and sarni and salni ain't them). =C2=A0In any cas= e, your (lorxus'?) original argument is at best specious, because just = like in languages such as English, the default for tersilna is zo'e, wh= ich means, in normal conversation, when you say "ko dunda =C2=A0lo sil= na mi" or "lo rectu cu se vrusi lo ka silna", your listener = is going to assume "...be fi lo sodna be lo ratni be li papa kuku joi = lo kliru=C2=A0be lo ratni be li paze", unless you specify otherwise, o= r you are working in lab with e.g. radium salts, or your listener is insane= . =C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 There is really no need for people to always t= ry to complicate matters by multiplying gismu (or using overly precise lujv= o or fu'ivla) when not necessary,

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gejyspa

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=

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