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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 19:21:31 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj3f4TNcshFJiro1qcZwy_w81cxuMjXpgG91t6v9L6-=Sg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Introduction to Lojban. How to quickly create sentences
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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I seem to remember .odf as an exportable format....
On Jan 31, 2014 2:50 PM, "Wuzzy" <almikes@aol.com> wrote:

> An interesting project.
>
> But, oh god, why Google Docs? I hate this shit.
>
> Anyways.  To all newbies: Don't trust this document, it has a couple of
> mistakes and is full of oversimplifications. But yeah, that's the
> problem with quick introductions.
>
> ----
>
> "mi tavla do pa lo skina je lo xrula"
> This text is not grammatical.
>
> ----
>
> "i pei do tugni ?" is NOT "Do you agree?". First mistake: Lojban does
> not known the question mark. Remember this an introduction to Lojban,
> not an introduction to weird alternative experimental orthographies.
>
> Second mistake: The word "pei" is far fetched here. Actually it's a
> question for emotion. But the English is clearly a simple yes/no
> question.
> So why not "xu"?
> "i xu do tugni" would be much better.
>
> ----
>
> Also the slides are full of oversimplifications. Okay, not surprising
> for a short introduction. But these oversimplifications are wrong and
> misleading.
>
> "vanci coi la alis" = "Good evening, Alice."
> This is a bit far fetched, I think. This may be true for this very
> context, but newbies may be lead to thinking this could be somehow
> generalized. The text does not lose a way about the implications.
>
> First, there are no such things as verbs and nouns in Lojban! What you
> are actually refering to is a completely different word class, a
> brivla, in English we could call it "relation".
>
>
> "lo nei" = "oneself"
> Oh boy. Translating this with "oneself" is only correct in the context
> of this example. But it can't be generalized.
>
> There are some other oversimplifications.
>
> Perhaps it is a good idea to put a warning on the first slide that this
> thing is a radical oversimplification of Lojban. Links to other
> learning resources (except the wiki) would be useful.
>
> ----
>
> Why do you introduce "mi'ai", an experimental cmavo? I don't think it
> is a good idea to introduce experimental stuff before even the basics
> are tought.
>
> ----
>
> Normally, I would have edited this document right away without
> complaining, just improving stuff. But since this is on Google Docs and
> Google Docs does not export the file to an open AND editable format like
> OpenDocument, I am not willing to edit it. :-(
>
> --
> Wuzzy
> XMPP: Wuzzy2@jabber.ccc.de
> E-Mail: wuzzy2@mail.ru
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>

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<p dir=3D"ltr">I seem to remember .odf as an exportable format....</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jan 31, 2014 2:50 PM, &quot;Wuzzy&quot; &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:almikes@aol.com">almikes@aol.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D=
"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
An interesting project.<br>
<br>
But, oh god, why Google Docs? I hate this shit.<br>
<br>
Anyways. &nbsp;To all newbies: Don&rsquo;t trust this document, it has a co=
uple of<br>
mistakes and is full of oversimplifications. But yeah, that&rsquo;s the<br>
problem with quick introductions.<br>
<br>
----<br>
<br>
&ldquo;mi tavla do pa lo skina je lo xrula&rdquo;<br>
This text is not grammatical.<br>
<br>
----<br>
<br>
&ldquo;i pei do tugni ?&rdquo; is NOT &ldquo;Do you agree?&rdquo;. First mi=
stake: Lojban does<br>
not known the question mark. Remember this an introduction to Lojban,<br>
not an introduction to weird alternative experimental orthographies.<br>
<br>
Second mistake: The word &ldquo;pei&rdquo; is far fetched here. Actually it=
&rsquo;s a<br>
question for emotion. But the English is clearly a simple yes/no<br>
question.<br>
So why not &ldquo;xu&rdquo;?<br>
&ldquo;i xu do tugni&rdquo; would be much better.<br>
<br>
----<br>
<br>
Also the slides are full of oversimplifications. Okay, not surprising<br>
for a short introduction. But these oversimplifications are wrong and<br>
misleading.<br>
<br>
&ldquo;vanci coi la alis&rdquo; =3D &ldquo;Good evening, Alice.&rdquo;<br>
This is a bit far fetched, I think. This may be true for this very<br>
context, but newbies may be lead to thinking this could be somehow<br>
generalized. The text does not lose a way about the implications.<br>
<br>
First, there are no such things as verbs and nouns in Lojban! What you<br>
are actually refering to is a completely different word class, a<br>
brivla, in English we could call it &ldquo;relation&rdquo;.<br>
<br>
<br>
&ldquo;lo nei&rdquo; =3D &ldquo;oneself&rdquo;<br>
Oh boy. Translating this with &ldquo;oneself&rdquo; is only correct in the =
context<br>
of this example. But it can&rsquo;t be generalized.<br>
<br>
There are some other oversimplifications.<br>
<br>
Perhaps it is a good idea to put a warning on the first slide that this<br>
thing is a radical oversimplification of Lojban. Links to other<br>
learning resources (except the wiki) would be useful.<br>
<br>
----<br>
<br>
Why do you introduce &ldquo;mi&#39;ai&rdquo;, an experimental cmavo? I don&=
rsquo;t think it<br>
is a good idea to introduce experimental stuff before even the basics<br>
are tought.<br>
<br>
----<br>
<br>
Normally, I would have edited this document right away without<br>
complaining, just improving stuff. But since this is on Google Docs and<br>
Google Docs does not export the file to an open AND editable format like<br=
>
OpenDocument, I am not willing to edit it. :-(<br>
<br>
--<br>
Wuzzy<br>
XMPP: <a href=3D"mailto:Wuzzy2@jabber.ccc.de">Wuzzy2@jabber.ccc.de</a><br>
E-Mail: <a href=3D"mailto:wuzzy2@mail.ru">wuzzy2@mail.ru</a><br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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