Received: from mail-bk0-f64.google.com ([209.85.214.64]:50181) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1W9TXb-0005Kf-Hz for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:55:14 -0800 Received: by mail-bk0-f64.google.com with SMTP id mz11sf704786bkb.9 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:54:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=xVXZy0YKqPDqDu3CxtW5sZed0F5Pc4ZF3d8U1A3+5iw=; b=WmLsprH/MJzakw9624T7LN2Wj8DO4sGuBVA38xcQFjikqguPM3EfYkWzVJoAsYk8fn 9DKHSbeHS5ND2gTB3ses48AAmB0wfEO2pI1ON5BnmavDHPIl4YURKcgHmsu5KkLkX/oy OsmvJk7SJ62it5isWmFJPargAqaX6L9MuRgNtgswWwtSrUYRxmDXzwqX/n84a9RqCpXo YRHQXa+qF3NLdPNgvRxuoBrwH45zfg0iA6OM0URlNgEgB7vZsmlACrEUiAHKpWJjSnRy I9IvmqVDxMqBeNtFYxjE5O4OuO3NhjCGkd7xrz0E8WOTC98wzCvzz4BAB+aifWG5NW5r 8hnA== X-Received: by 10.180.206.52 with SMTP id ll20mr8601wic.9.1391234088279; Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:54:48 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.189.174 with SMTP id gj14ls207517wic.6.canary; Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:54:47 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.204.62.71 with SMTP id w7mr99743bkh.8.1391234087820; Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:54:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-we0-x22a.google.com (mail-we0-x22a.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c03::22a]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t10si64854wiw.3.2014.01.31.21.54.47 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:54:47 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c03::22a as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c03::22a; Received: by mail-we0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id w62so375905wes.29 for ; Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:54:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.189.139 with SMTP id gi11mr1336196wic.53.1391234087728; Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:54:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.82.135 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:54:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <39754452.qBRO9r5Y0J@caracal> References: <39754452.qBRO9r5Y0J@caracal> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 09:54:47 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Introduction to Lojban. How to quickly create sentences From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c03::22a as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c34908993b8004f151ed37 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --001a11c34908993b8004f151ed37 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:40:46 Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > > https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Yrxt9gAtqA_oSDD76Toq8VLSZjjOxJ5rkKsx > > Fs3Cw8E/ > > #3: I'd say "lo skina". "pa lo skina" is "one movie". "lo skina" sounds > more > natural, but can also mean "movies", as Lojban has no grammatical number. > But then how to teach numbers? > > lu pei do tugni li'u zo'u mi tugni fi tu'a lu xu do tugni li'u > Notes to the slide #24 have it explained. > > "lo" does not make a noun. Then why {mlatu} = "... is a cat of breed ..." and {lo mlatu} = "a cat/the cat/cats/the cats"? "la" makes, or takes, a noun, if anything in Lojban > can be called a noun. > > I don't know "mi'ai". Lojban has clusivity. It has "mi'o", "mi'a" and > "ma'a"; > also "mi" can be used with a plural referent (since it has no grammatical > number), implying that we all say the same thing. > English "we" means "I and at least one another person". A clear and useful word without any polysemy. Lojban is less logical than English, right ? ;) > > #14: "ca" is a tense marker. Like all tense markers, it can be used as a > preposition, but it's primarily a tense marker. And they are followed by a > sumti, which can be a noun, but more commonly is an article phrase. > > #14,#15: "yesterday's day" sounds like it means "prulamdonri". > I just removed the misleading sentence. Plz check. > > #16: "bai" without an object does not turn into a tense. It's a proper > preposition. > notes taken. > > #20: There is no such thing as an adjective or adverb in Lojban. The verb > (i.e. brivla) doesn't change to another part of speech just because you > modify > another verb with it. It's a verb modifying a verb, which is not common in > English ("drip dry" and "stir fry" are examples) but very common in Lojban. > Needs to be rewritten. agreed > > #36: There's no infinitive in Lojban, as verbs are not inflected. "lo ka > broda" > is an abstraction phrase. It can be translated as an infinitive, but that > doesn't make it one. > If you say "There is no such thing in Lojban" one can conclude Lojban is a underdeveloped language. Isn't {broda lo ka [ce'u] brode} = y(x, f(x)) ? I always thought this is exactly what an infinitive is. "I try to run" = {mi troci lo ka bajra}. y() - "try to", x = "I", f(x) - "run". > Pierre > -- > loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --001a11c34908993b8004f151ed37 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Pierre Abbat <= phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:
On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:40:46 Gleki Arxokuna wro= te:
> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d= /1Yrxt9gAtqA_oSDD76Toq8VLSZjjOxJ5rkKsx
> Fs3Cw8E/

#3: I'd say "lo skina". "pa lo skina" is "one = movie". "lo skina" sounds more
natural, but can also mean "movies", as Lojban has no grammatical= number.

But then how to teach numbers?=
=C2=A0

lu pei do tugni li'u zo'u mi tugni fi tu'a lu xu do tugni li= 9;u
Notes to the slide #24 have it explained.
=C2=A0

"lo" does not make a noun.

Then w= hy {mlatu} =3D "... is a cat of breed ..." =C2=A0and {lo mlatu} = =3D "a cat/the cat/cats/the cats"?

"la" makes, or takes, a noun, if anything in Lojban
can be called a noun.

I don't know "mi'ai". Lojban has clusivity. It has "= mi'o", "mi'a" and "ma'a";
also "mi" can be used with a plural referent (since it has no gra= mmatical
number), implying that we all say the same thing.

=
English "we" means "I and at least one another pe= rson". A clear and useful word without any polysemy. Lojban is less lo= gical than English, right ? ;)

#14: "ca" is a tense marker. Like all tense markers, it can be us= ed as a
preposition, but it's primarily a tense marker. And they are followed b= y a
sumti, which can be a noun, but more commonly is an article phrase.

#14,#15: "yesterday's day" sounds like it means "prulamd= onri".

I just removed the misleadi= ng sentence. Plz check.
=C2=A0

#16: "bai" without an object does not turn into a tense. It's= a proper
preposition.

notes taken.
=C2= =A0

#20: There is no such thing as an adjective or adverb in Lojban. The verb (i.e. brivla) doesn't change to another part of speech just because you= modify
another verb with it. It's a verb modifying a verb, which is not common= in
English ("drip dry" and "stir fry" are examples) but ve= ry common in Lojban.

Needs to be rewrit= ten. agreed=C2=A0

#36: There's no infinitive in Lojban, as verbs are not inflected. "= ;lo ka broda"
is an abstraction phrase. It can be translated as an infinitive, but that doesn't make it one.

If you say &qu= ot;There is no such thing in Lojban" one can conclude Lojban is a unde= rdeveloped language.
Isn't {broda lo ka [ce'u] brode} =3D= y(x, f(x)) ? I always thought this is exactly what an infinitive is.

"I try to run" =3D {mi troci lo ka bajra}.

y() - "try to",
x =3D "I&qu= ot;,
f(x) - "run".


<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;pa= dding-left:1ex">
Pierre
--
loi mintu se ckaji danlu cu jmaji

--
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--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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