Received: from mail-fa0-f56.google.com ([209.85.161.56]:63940) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1W9g35-0001cF-5f for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 11:16:25 -0800 Received: by mail-fa0-f56.google.com with SMTP id m10sf651438fae.1 for ; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 11:16:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=H1BB/kHJhIp2qCSI7QDD7Rgh5L/vrCD0Q/bI+SucU8Q=; b=i+9Si1sDUUHK/GfHw0crHvqQQbQujgv2ysBkbeS5dy7z5AAtQQ3uAtBzLvgNcaDE6P IGMbt40NQN7VBGizjr5XxOIM6t3Fcprh8L+UJpjnb1d3PKbVVp0Obth/KodeMvDtA3FC 1e/XGoDrGjqOfdeGDQJABl+h4QTgZ2w+yHQs83lVGJLCfnk/Z4tS07aP+6xqddWQo2En /CSxnsGtlMWOicMCztCx5+7KfPqz9L4euNZPrZuiy7sPIaBeYptfQ9omlSDxyGOQMX9J as9LMxTg9LcZ4mQOEG1VytjCM70XNPNaoCHxtP19Px6EsjJU9UVG75RLmaT7SM97DQXo 9acQ== X-Received: by 10.152.198.165 with SMTP id jd5mr2662lac.8.1391282167692; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 11:16:07 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.23.135 with SMTP id m7ls237091laf.19.gmail; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 11:16:07 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.27.138 with SMTP id t10mr11004343lbg.19.1391282167093; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 11:16:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x233.google.com (mail-wg0-x233.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o3si156344wiy.0.2014.02.01.11.16.07 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 01 Feb 2014 11:16:07 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::233; Received: by mail-wg0-f51.google.com with SMTP id z12so10564578wgg.30 for ; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 11:16:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.93.133 with SMTP id cu5mr3347586wib.32.1391282166952; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 11:16:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.82.135 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Feb 2014 11:16:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.82.135 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Feb 2014 11:16:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9cd1f346-4e83-4e2c-85cc-54bc30fe39ac@googlegroups.com> References: <39754452.qBRO9r5Y0J@caracal> <9cd1f346-4e83-4e2c-85cc-54bc30fe39ac@googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 23:16:06 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Introduction to Lojban. How to quickly create sentences From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0438904557f95c04f15d1f7b X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d0438904557f95c04f15d1f7b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I ll just add that no tutorial can be ideal. The more of them the better. Alternatives are Lojban For Beginners, Lojban Reference Grammar and Wave Lessons Continued. On Feb 1, 2014 9:53 PM, "Yixuan Zhu" wrote: > Hi Gleki, I saw you added even more slides: That is great! > As I am more or less one of the "newbies" everyone is talking about, I > feel that I am in the position to provide feedback, and will. Until then, > keep up the good work. Of course no introduction can cover every aspect o= f > the language, that is the whole point of an "introduction". As to the > "correct description of grammatical parts", I think without reference to > existing languages, it is close to impossible to teach/learn a new one, s= o > a balanced reference to "nouns", etc. is very appropriate. Once learners > can feel and use some parts of lojban, they will feel more motivated to > learn more about the grammatical awesomeness. > > If we cannot explain it simple, then complex explanation will be good for > nothing. > > Yours, > Davjd > > > > > On Saturday, February 1, 2014 7:52:16 AM UTC+1, la gleki wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Felipe Gon=C3=A7alves Assis < >> felipe...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1 February 2014 03:54, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote= : >>>> >>>> >>>>> "lo" does not make a noun. >>>> >>>> >>>> Then why {mlatu} =3D "... is a cat of breed ..." and {lo mlatu} =3D "= a >>>> cat/the cat/cats/the cats"? >>>> >>>> >>> I guess Pierre meant that it is more of a noun phrase (or article phras= e >>> as he said), and you probably don't bother because Russian doesn't have >>> articles, right? >>> >> >> idk how is that relevant. >> {bajra} =3D to run. >> {lo bajra} =3D a runner/the runner/runners. >> Clearly, brivla (verbs) are transformed into nouns using {lo}. >> English article "the" can be translated using {le}, {bi'unai} and other >> things. >> >> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --f46d0438904557f95c04f15d1f7b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I ll just add that no tutorial can be ideal.=C2=A0 The more = of them the better. Alternatives are Lojban For Beginners,=C2=A0 Lojban Ref= erence Grammar and Wave Lessons Continued.

On Feb 1, 2014 9:53 PM, "Yixuan Zhu" &= lt;sulzedax@cms.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
Hi Gleki, I saw you added even more slides: That is great!=
As I am more or less one of the "newbies" everyone is talking= about, I feel that I am in the position to provide feedback, and will. Unt= il then, keep up the good work. Of course no introduction can cover every a= spect of the language, that is the whole point of an "introduction&quo= t;. As to the "correct description of grammatical parts", I think= without reference to existing languages, it is close to impossible to teac= h/learn a new one, so a balanced reference to "nouns", etc. is ve= ry appropriate. Once learners can feel and use some parts of lojban, they w= ill feel more motivated to learn more about the grammatical awesomeness.
If we cannot explain it simple, then complex explanation will be good f= or nothing.

Yours,
Davjd




On Saturday, February= 1, 2014 7:52:16 AM UTC+1, la gleki wrote:



On Sat, Feb 1,= 2014 at 10:14 AM, Felipe Gon=C3=A7alves Assis <fel= ipe...@gmail.com> wrote:



On 1 February 2014 03:54, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:



On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Pierre Abb= at <ph...@bezitopo.org> wrote:
=C2=A0
"lo" does not make a noun.

= Then why {mlatu} =3D "... is a cat of breed ..." =C2=A0and {lo ml= atu} =3D "a cat/the cat/cats/the cats"?


I guess Pierre me= ant that it is more of a noun phrase (or article phrase as he said), and yo= u probably don't bother because Russian doesn't have articles, righ= t?

idk how is that re= levant.
{bajra} =C2=A0=3D to run.
{lo bajra} =3D a runn= er/the runner/runners.
Clearly, brivla (verbs) are transformed in= to nouns using {lo}.
English article "the" can be translated using {le}, {bi'= unai} and other things.

--
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To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
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--
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