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Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 22:17:02 -0200
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Individuals and xorlo
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Dan Ros=E9n <lurifax@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> It seems that using xorlo prevents explicitly talking about indivduals,
> such as
> /one elephant/, a seemingly simple concept. Let's start with an inner
> quantifier:
>
>     lo pa xanto =3D zo'e noi ke'a xanto gi'e zilkancu li pa lo xanto,
>
> However, the latter {lo xanto} in zilkancu3 can denote about a group of
> elephants, so {lo pa xanto} can indeed be many elephants.  Outer
> quantifiers
> will not help, as they will only range over the inner object.
>

"lo pa xanto" can only be a single elephant: the elephant in front of you,
the African elephant, the elephant being digested by a boa constrictor in
Saint-Exupery's drawing, etc. but it always has to be one. It cannot be a
group of elephants in front of you, all African elephants, the millions of
elephants being digested by boa constrictors in the millions of
reproductions of that picture, etc.

Sometimes you can make the same claims about the African elephant that you
can make about all African elephants, or about the elephant inside the boa
and about all the elephants inside all those boas, or even perhaps about
the elephant in front of you and a group of elephants in front of you, but
that doesn't mean that linguistically they are the same object.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Dan Ros=E9n <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:lurifax@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lurifax@gmail.com</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>It seems that using xor=
lo prevents explicitly talking about indivduals, such as<br>/one elephant/,=
 a seemingly simple concept. Let&#39;s start with an inner quantifier:<br>
<br>=A0=A0=A0 lo pa xanto =3D zo&#39;e noi ke&#39;a xanto gi&#39;e zilkancu=
 li pa lo xanto,<br>

<br>However, the latter {lo xanto} in zilkancu3 can denote about a group of=
<br>elephants, so {lo pa xanto} can indeed be many elephants.=A0 Outer quan=
tifiers<br>will not help, as they will only range over the inner object.<br=
>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>&quot;lo pa xanto&quot; can only be =
a single elephant: the elephant in front of you, the African elephant, the =
elephant being digested by a boa constrictor in Saint-Exupery&#39;s drawing=
, etc. but it always has to be one. It cannot be a group of elephants in fr=
ont of you, all African elephants, the millions of elephants being digested=
 by boa constrictors in the millions of reproductions of that picture, etc.=
</div>
<div><br></div><div>Sometimes you can make the same claims about the Africa=
n elephant that you can make about all African elephants, or about the elep=
hant inside the boa and about all the elephants inside all those boas, or e=
ven perhaps about the elephant in front of you and a group of elephants in =
front of you, but that doesn&#39;t mean that linguistically they are the sa=
me object.</div>
<div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes=A0</div></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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