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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 22:08:27 -0200
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Subject: Re: [lojban] [oz] Quick question: {ju'o ru'a}
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis <
felipeg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hmm, the analysis of this as certainty+assumption hasn't sunk in yet, but
> I think I see the unity behind the examples.
>
> In all of them, the cusku is abducting something from his experience,
> don't you think?
>
> If this is the case, it reminds me of {ja'o}, because it is an inference,
> after all. Admittedly, {ja'o} would sound strange to me, because I feel
> like the cusku is concluding something from what was said before. Maybe a
> {za'a} could help?
>

My take is that when she says `I must be shutting up like a telescope.' she
is making a hypothesis as opposed to stating it as a fact (hence "ru'a")
and also expressing a high degree of certainty that the hypothesis is
correct ("ju'o"). It may well be that her certainty comes from experience
or direct observation, and we may infer that from the situation, but I
don't think she is actually expressing that. This "ru'a ju'o" would work
just as well for other such uses of "must" that don't involve direct
experience, as in "that must be your brother" or "she must be home by now".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Felipe Gon=E7alves Assis <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:felipeg.assis@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">f=
elipeg.assis@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Hmm, the analysis=
 of this as certainty+assumption hasn&#39;t sunk in yet, but I think I see =
the unity behind the examples.<br>
<br></div>In all of them, the cusku is abducting something from his experie=
nce, don&#39;t you think?<br>
<br>If this is the case, it reminds me of {ja&#39;o}, because it is an infe=
rence, after all. Admittedly, {ja&#39;o} would sound strange to me, because=
 I feel like the cusku is concluding something from what was said before. M=
aybe a {za&#39;a} could help?</div>
</div></blockquote><div>=A0</div><div><font color=3D"#000000">My take is th=
at when she says=A0<span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:=
16.1200008392334px">`I must be=A0</span><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sa=
ns-serif;line-height:16.1200008392334px">shutting up like a telescope</span=
><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:16.1200008392334px=
">.&#39; </span><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:16.=
1200008392334px">she is making a hypothesis as opposed to stating it as a f=
act (hence &quot;ru&#39;a&quot;) and also expressing a high degree of certa=
inty that the hypothesis is correct (&quot;ju&#39;o&quot;). It may well be =
that her certainty comes from experience or direct observation, and we may =
infer that from the situation, but I don&#39;t think she is actually expres=
sing that. This &quot;ru&#39;a ju&#39;o&quot; would work just as well for o=
ther such uses of &quot;must&quot; that don&#39;t involve direct experience=
, as in &quot;that must be your brother&quot; or &quot;she must be home by =
now&quot;.</span></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;li=
ne-height:16.1200008392334px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#=
000000"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;line-height:16.12000083=
92334px">mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</span></font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;li=
ne-height:16.1200008392334px"><br></span></font></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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