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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 18:26:27 -0200
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2cxsM+SEaPE3ZD5a91xZKdy2qhTB_MPn-pmNm7n03O1xw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Individuals and xorlo
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 8:47 AM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

>
>>          lo pa xanto = zo'e noi ke'a xanto gi'e zilkancu li pa lo xanto,
>>
>> If I may, Dan is asking why the unit {lo xanto} cannot be (implicitly)
> {lo ci xanto}, in which case three elephants would be counted as one
> counting off by threes. Using a property in zilkancu3 would probably be
> clearer for that reason.


 But "lo ka ce'u xanto" is a property of "lo ci xanto" as well as of "lo
xanto", so I'm not sure it adds anything in that respect. "ka" does help
people who don't like generic references, but I'm not sure it does anything
more than "lo xanto" to specify the size of the unit. How would it help to
say that you are counting by things that have the property "lo ka ce'u
xanto" if among those things there's lo ci xanto as well as lo pa xanto?

As it stands, some people seem to think that the zilkancu3 unit contains a
> context-dependent inner quantifier, thus counting of by {xo'e mei}. I don't
> think that's the intended meaning, so it should be stated clearly that
> we're dealing with singletons.


An important point of xorlo is that it gets rid of implicit quantifiers,
but yes.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 8:47 AM, selpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-sty=
le:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div class=3D"h5"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bo=
rder-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0lo pa xanto =3D zo&#39;e noi ke&#39;a xanto gi&#39;e zil=
kancu li pa lo xanto,<br>
<br></blockquote></div></div>
If I may, Dan is asking why the unit {lo xanto} cannot be (implicitly) {lo =
ci xanto}, in which case three elephants would be counted as one counting o=
ff by threes. Using a property in zilkancu3 would probably be clearer for t=
hat reason.</blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>=A0But &quot;lo ka ce&#39;u xanto&quot; is a property o=
f &quot;lo ci xanto&quot; as well as of &quot;lo xanto&quot;, so I&#39;m no=
t sure it adds anything in that respect. &quot;ka&quot; does help people wh=
o don&#39;t like generic references, but I&#39;m not sure it does anything =
more than &quot;lo xanto&quot; to specify the size of the unit. How would i=
t help to say that you are counting by things that have the property &quot;=
lo ka ce&#39;u xanto&quot; if among those things there&#39;s lo ci xanto as=
 well as lo pa xanto?</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-lef=
t-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"> As it stands, some people seem to think th=
at the zilkancu3 unit contains a context-dependent inner quantifier, thus c=
ounting of by {xo&#39;e mei}. I don&#39;t think that&#39;s the intended mea=
ning, so it should be stated clearly that we&#39;re dealing with singletons=
.</blockquote>
<div>=A0</div><div>An important point of xorlo is that it gets rid of impli=
cit quantifiers, but yes. =A0</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xo=
rxes</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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