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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 16:35:50 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj2zzj47Bcviv8yOfMAKhafUK+rd_o55VrQctRn9bQFf3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Individuals and xorlo
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:05 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

> la .pycyn. cu cusku di'e
> <snip>
>
underdocumented and scattered definitions.... [M]ore complete specification
> that one can point someone to instead of having to re-open a discussion
> about xorlo.
>

The official definitions of cmavo are organized by selma'o on the BPFK
Sections <http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Sections> page.
This<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+gadri>page should
allow adding such relevant information. I would suggest either
the general Notes<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-editpage.php?page=3DBPFK+=
Section%3A+gadri&hdr=3D4>or
Issues<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-editpage.php?page=3DBPFK+Section%3A+=
gadri&hdr=3D7>,
or specific Notes for the gadri itself.

I would assume these pages also exist on the MediaWiki, but you'd have to
ask the maintainer, Gleki, where they are.

<snip>
>
>> Variables range over L-sets or are plural, depending on
>> your mathematical theology.  Etc.  do we need to fill in all the details
>> and, if not, which ones?
>>
>
> We need to know if variables are plural or singular, that's all.
> Currently, they are "defined" as singular, for some value of "defined" th=
at
> makes sense when there is no official body to define it.
>

Sets in general can be any number and are neither singular nor plural. It
is possible to have 0-sets, 1-sets, or even =E2=88=9E-sets. A specific set =
will be
either singular, plural, or neither depending entirely on how many members
it has in it. In Lojban the precise set being referenced (, i.e., the
members of the set {la.djan.} are all entities who have "John" or its
variant spellings as the name by which they are called), can usually be
inferred from context (, i.e., those named "John" who are relevant to the
context of the current discussion, which in this case is John Clifford and
myself.)

In the case of {lo ve kalcu}, I would say that the set would always, or at
least nearly always be a 1-set, and would typically be the 1-set [1],
although I can imagine counting by multiples, such as in {kancu li cire to
du li ci te'a mu toi me'o li mu li re}.


> <snip>
>


--=20
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On W=
ed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:05 PM, selpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
la .pycyn. cu cusku di&#39;e<div>&lt;snip&gt; <br></div></blockquote><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">underdocumented and scattered de=
finitions.... [M]ore complete specification that one can point someone to i=
nstead of having to re-open a discussion about xorlo.</div>
</blockquote><div><br>The official definitions of cmavo are organized by se=
lma&#39;o on the <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Sections">BPFK =
Sections</a> page. <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+ga=
dri">This</a> page should allow adding such relevant information. I would s=
uggest either the general <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-editpa=
ge.php?page=3DBPFK+Section%3A+gadri&amp;hdr=3D4">Notes</a> or <a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-editpage.php?page=3DBPFK+Section%3A+gadri&amp=
;hdr=3D7">Issues</a>, or specific Notes for the gadri itself.<br>
<br></div><div>I would assume these pages also exist on the MediaWiki, but =
you&#39;d have to ask the maintainer, Gleki, where they are.<br></div><div>=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
&lt;snip&gt;<br>
<div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Variables range over L-sets or are plural, depending on<br>
your mathematical theology. =C2=A0Etc. =C2=A0do we need to fill in all the =
details<br>
and, if not, which ones?<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
We need to know if variables are plural or singular, that&#39;s all. Curren=
tly, they are &quot;defined&quot; as singular, for some value of &quot;defi=
ned&quot; that makes sense when there is no official body to define it.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sets in general can be any number and are =
neither singular nor plural. It is possible to have 0-sets, 1-sets, or even=
 =E2=88=9E-sets. A specific set will be either singular, plural, or neither=
 depending entirely on how many members it has in it. In Lojban the precise=
 set being referenced (, i.e., the members of the set {la.djan.} are all en=
tities who have &quot;John&quot; or its variant spellings as the name by wh=
ich they are called), can usually be inferred from context (, i.e., those n=
amed &quot;John&quot; who are relevant to the context of the current discus=
sion, which in this case is John Clifford and myself.)<br>
<br></div><div>In the case of {lo ve kalcu}, I would say that the set would=
 always, or at least nearly always be a 1-set, and would typically be the 1=
-set [1], although I can imagine counting by multiples, such as in {kancu l=
i cire to du li ci te&#39;a mu toi me&#39;o li mu li re}.<br>
</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

&lt;snip&gt;<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;=
o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i d=
oi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your fath=
er. :D )<br>

</div></div>

<p></p>

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