Received: from mail-qc0-f186.google.com ([209.85.216.186]:60006) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WBQUT-0006cp-Eb for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 07:03:54 -0800 Received: by mail-qc0-f186.google.com with SMTP id x13sf486322qcv.23 for ; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 07:03:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=3/FOfMB6xvbCmT5hPvZL3+FjE2VvSypT6lfKOX5028A=; b=Q5Yhippa1FS/B+U6P1G2m8jaQ3L7vntbEBHI/Z+xChAB65W/NUeGTb2IBJn62WWbHx Lkb9V2tpiqd2ea6Wnz/tVVP6Pgpc5InIRJREYlBg223hPlnm2VrJxobs91PxnIgrUO/m yHcrtxjybCqiqxQ/vL2IyQO/7m827YSxpuDtc1HmFXgT+w45ZSy1jR2zda+g+aXKPLeG kXVCWXLJczHPrkDVoZD7qKBa8v8Muyy09TRCLRq5sBBwTMRrHxRYePr1si4R1hMsD2OU e/80SRTuMMBQaKZ+QuIUfy1aO8O8qfFAum0Eo6H0HF6ya+UibGzhoAhnhsXbnxTLGC2u uaig== X-Received: by 10.140.105.54 with SMTP id b51mr12574qgf.29.1391699019130; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 07:03:39 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.93.199 with SMTP id d65ls632430qge.12.gmail; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 07:03:38 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.140.102.35 with SMTP id v32mr58352qge.26.1391699018282; Thu, 06 Feb 2014 07:03:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 07:03:37 -0800 (PST) From: selpa'i To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Subject: [lojban] Re: [oz] Assorted translation questions MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3800_3396209.1391699017260" X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Spam_score: 2.5 X-Spam_score_int: 25 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Am Dienstag, 7. Januar 2014 16:47:16 UTC+1 schrieb .asiz.: > > Chapter 3 > > 9. {co'a zùkte lo nu brebì'o lo nu lìtru se ka'a la ri'òjme tcà du}; > > Why {litru se ka'a} instead of plain {klama}? Is it just for variation, or > is there some nuance you are trying to emphasise? I understand that {klama} > is telic, but I can't see it making a difference here. > [...] Content analysis details: (2.5 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (seladwa[at]gmx.de) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 2.5 DRUGS_MUSCLE Refers to a muscle relaxant ------=_Part_3800_3396209.1391699017260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Dienstag, 7. Januar 2014 16:47:16 UTC+1 schrieb .asiz.: > > Chapter 3 > > 9. {co'a z=C3=B9kte lo nu breb=C3=AC'o lo nu l=C3=ACtru se ka'a la ri'=C3= =B2jme tc=C3=A0du}; > > Why {litru se ka'a} instead of plain {klama}? Is it just for variation, o= r=20 > is there some nuance you are trying to emphasise? I understand that {klam= a}=20 > is telic, but I can't see it making a difference here. > {klama} alone sounded too plain for a journey. Maybe {li'ukla}. =20 > > 10. {sei la .d=C3=B2rotis. fau lo nu x=C3=B9lgau v=C3=ACmcu lo c=C3=ACnje= be ty}; > > Did you forget a {cusku}? > Yes. =20 > > 11. {lo tolc=C3=AC'o ke kilj=C3=AC'o je bl=C3=A0nu m=C3=A0pku}; > > Wouldn't {se kilji'o} or {jipkinli} be more appropriate? The hat is eithe= r=20 > jipno2 or kinli1. > Weeell it's a tanru. (Changed) =20 > 12. {pa lo k=C3=A0nla cu m=C3=A0sno kalgaisl=C3=ACgau lo k=C3=A0nla}; > > ki'a?! Did you mean something like > {cy masno kalgaisligau pa da}? > That's what happens when you translate for four hours straight... =20 It should be {cy. masno kalgaisligau lo kanla}. Chapter 4 > > 13. {cy boi dy k=C3=A0nsa lo ka gl=C3=A8ki cm=C3=ACla lo dy. malfu'a}; > > Did you mean {lo cy. malfu'a}? > Yup, thanks. (These letter pronouns really aren't great) > 14. {va'o lo nu mi sr=C3=A0ku my ja'e lo nons=C3=A8lsfe te zu'e lo nu mi = ka'e c=C3=ACtka}; > > Why {nonselsfe}? What about {kevna} or {nonselgai}? > He's talking about cutting a hole into his painted mouth. It's not exactly= =20 a {kevna}, since it's not concave, but simply nonexistant afterwards. The= =20 other option is {kunti}. =20 > > > 15. {pa lo pa moi se z=C3=B9kte cu nu pirf=C3=AC'i lo mi k=C3=A8rlo kei}; > > 15.1. Wouldn't {so'o moi} fit better? > That's an interesting idea. I treat "one of the first things" as there=20 being several things that are pa moi together, and the current action is=20 among that first group. =20 > > 15.2. Why {pirfi'i} and not {te pixra fi}? > Because I don't consider {te pixra} an action. It's more of a made-by=20 stamp. =20 > > 16. {ki'u lo nu pa re'u nu mi v=C3=ACska lo m=C3=B9nje}; > > Is that second {nu} intentional? > Four hours! Although if I recall correctly, some days were closer to six=20 hours. Fixed. > > 17. {da tai tolk=C3=B9fra lo nu da dj=C3=B9no lo du'u da b=C3=A8bna}; > > Why not {zo'e} here? > {tai tolkufra lo nu vo'a djuno lo du'u vo'a bebna} > Repeating {vo'a} so much isn't my style. "Some are so ... about knowing=20 that they ... that they ..." works fine with {da}. =20 > > 18. {d=C3=B9nda lo l=C3=A0nka la cpit=C3=A8pygau}; > > Don't we have {benji} for this? > She gives the basket to the Scarecrow, that's plain {dunda}.=20 =20 > > 19. {mi'o b=C3=AClga lo ka kl=C3=A0ma ro da poi dy mi'a da klag=C3=AC'a}; > > The alternation of pronouns baffles me. I would use {ma'a} all along. > That second {mi'a} should be {mi'o}. I use {mi'o} because the speaker is=20 addressing the rest of the group and including themselves, but there are no= =20 others involved, so {ma'a} doesn't fit.=20 Thanks again for all the comments. And I haven't forgotten about the=20 spreadsheet. mi'e la selpa'i mu'o >=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. ------=_Part_3800_3396209.1391699017260 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Am Dienstag, 7. Januar 2014 16:47:16 UTC+1 schrieb .asiz.:=
Chapter 3
=
9. {co'a z=C3=B9kte lo nu breb=C3=AC'o lo nu l=C3=ACtru se ka'a la ri'= =C3=B2jme tc=C3=A0du};

Why {litru se ka'a} instead of pl= ain {klama}? Is it just for variation, or is there some nuance you are tryi= ng to emphasise? I understand that {klama} is telic, but I can't see it mak= ing a difference here.

{klama} alone sounded too plain for a jou= rney. Maybe {li'ukla}.
 

10. {sei la .d=C3=B2rotis. fau= lo nu x=C3=B9lgau v=C3=ACmcu lo c=C3=ACnje be ty};

Did y= ou forget a {cusku}?

Yes.
 

1= 1. {lo tolc=C3=AC'o ke kilj=C3=AC'o je bl=C3=A0nu m=C3=A0pku};

Wouldn't {se kilji'o} or {jipkinli} be more appropriate? The= hat is either jipno2 or kinli1.

Weeel= l it's a tanru. (Changed)
 
12. {pa lo k=C3=A0nla cu m=C3= =A0sno kalgaisl=C3=ACgau lo k=C3=A0nla};

ki'a?! Did you mean something like
 {cy m= asno kalgaisligau pa da}?

That's what = happens when you translate for four hours straight...
 
It shoul= d be {cy. masno kalgaisligau lo kanla}.

Chapter 4

13. {cy boi dy k=C3=A0nsa lo ka gl=C3=A8ki cm=C3=ACla lo dy.= malfu'a};

Did you mean {lo cy. malfu'a}?
<= div>
Yup, thanks. (These letter pronouns really aren't great)


1= 4. {va'o lo nu mi sr=C3=A0ku my ja'e lo nons=C3=A8lsfe te zu'e lo nu mi ka'= e c=C3=ACtka};

Why {nonselsfe}? What about {kevna} or {nonselgai}?

He's talking about cutting a hole into his painted mouth. It'= s not exactly a {kevna}, since it's not concave, but simply nonexistant aft= erwards. The other option is {kunti}.
 


15. {pa lo pa moi se z= =C3=B9kte cu nu pirf=C3=AC'i lo mi k=C3=A8rlo kei};

15.1. Wouldn't {= so'o moi} fit better?

That's an intere= sting idea. I treat "one of the first things" as there being several things= that are pa moi together, and the current action is among that first group= .
 

15.2. Why {pirfi'i} and not {te pixra fi}?

 Because I don't consider {te pixra} an actio= n. It's more of a made-by stamp.
 

16. {ki'u lo nu pa r= e'u nu mi v=C3=ACska lo m=C3=B9nje};

Is that second {nu} = intentional?

Four hours! Al= though if I recall correctly, some days were closer to six hours.
Fixed.=



17. {da tai tolk=C3=B9fra lo nu da dj=C3=B9no lo du'u da b=C3= =A8bna};

Why not {zo'e} here?
{tai tolkufra lo nu vo'a = djuno lo du'u vo'a bebna}

Repeating {v= o'a} so much isn't my style. "Some are so ... about knowing that they ... t= hat they ..." works fine with {da}.
 

18. {d=C3=B9nda lo l=C3=A0nk= a la cpit=C3=A8pygau};

Don't we have {benji} for this?
=

She gives the basket to the Scarecrow, that's plain {dunda}.
&= nbsp;

19. {mi'o b=C3=AClga lo ka kl=C3=A0ma ro da poi dy mi'a da klag=C3= =AC'a};

The alternation of pronouns baffles me. I would u= se {ma'a} all along.

That second {mi'a= } should be {mi'o}. I use {mi'o} because the speaker is addressing the rest= of the group and including themselves, but there are no others involved, s= o {ma'a} doesn't fit.

Thanks again for all the comments. And I have= n't forgotten about the spreadsheet.

mi'e la selpa'i mu'o

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