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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 21:06:20 -0200
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Hole
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>
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On 6 February 2014 20:13, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

> la .asiz. cu cusku di'e
>
>  How do you translate "hole" in the sense of an opening in a solid, as in
>> "there is a hole in my bucket!"?
>>
>
> I've used {kunti}. The area that constitutes the hole is {kunti lo
> <surrounding material>}. Another option would be {kutca'u} "empty area".
>
>
Yeah... But I'd still like to refer to the holes specifically, talk about
their position and count them. By the way, how would you translate the
bucket sentence?


 selpa'i has used {nonselsfe}. I guess a sphere is a nonselsfe.
>>
>
> But a sphere has a surface. (4*pi*r^2)
>
>
I was thinking about sefta4. Should we pretend it never existed in the
first place? I myself wrote {bolsfetai} in the past.

But even without sefta4, you can't escape the fact that the sphere as a
(hyper)surface (in any dimension you want) doesn't have anything that could
be called a sefta or a korbi.

{nonselsfe} is supposed to describe something that has no surface. I'm not
> sure what such a thing could be, other than a hole. But I might be missing
> something.
>
>
The only shapes in 3d space without surfaces or boundaries I can think of
are 1d closed wires (circle), the 2d sphere, torus, double torus, triple
torus, ..., and unbounded things like infinite wires, sheets or the space
itself. This completely misses the point of holes.


>  I use
>> {korbi} for surfaces in general, but {nonselkoi} would be something
>> unbounded, or an open set in topology.
>>
>
> ue, I use {korbi} to talk about edges. :)
>
>
Well, edges are just a particular case.

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra">On 6 February 2014 20:13, s=
elpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=
=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
la .asiz. cu cusku di&#39;e<div class=3D""><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
How do you translate &quot;hole&quot; in the sense of an opening in a solid=
, as in<br>
&quot;there is a hole in my bucket!&quot;?<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
I&#39;ve used {kunti}. The area that constitutes the hole is {kunti lo &lt;=
surrounding material&gt;}. Another option would be {kutca&#39;u} &quot;empt=
y area&quot;.<div class=3D""><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>
Yeah... But I&#39;d still like to refer to the holes specifically, talk abo=
ut their position and count them. By the way, how would you translate the b=
ucket sentence?<br><br><br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">

selpa&#39;i has used {nonselsfe}. I guess a sphere is a nonselsfe.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
But a sphere has a surface. (4*pi*r^2)<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I was thinking about sefta4. Should we=
 pretend it never existed in the first place? I myself wrote {bolsfetai} in=
 the past.<br></div><div><br></div><div>But even without sefta4, you can=
9;t escape the fact that the sphere as a (hyper)surface (in any dimension y=
ou want) doesn&#39;t have anything that could be called a sefta or a korbi.=
<br>
</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
{nonselsfe} is supposed to describe something that has no surface. I&#39;m =
not sure what such a thing could be, other than a hole. But I might be miss=
ing something.<div class=3D""><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>
The only shapes in 3d space without surfaces or boundaries I can think of a=
re 1d closed wires (circle), the 2d sphere, torus, double torus, triple tor=
us, ..., and unbounded things like infinite wires, sheets or the space itse=
lf. This completely misses the point of holes.<br>
</div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"">
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I use<br>
{korbi} for surfaces in general, but {nonselkoi} would be something<br>
unbounded, or an open set in topology.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
ue, I use {korbi} to talk about edges. :)<div class=3D""><br></div></blockq=
uote><div><br></div><div>Well, edges are just a particular case.<br><br></d=
iv><div>mu&#39;o<br>mi&#39;e .asiz.<br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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