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Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2014 13:39:10 +0100
From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Individuals and xorlo
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la .guskant. cu cusku di'e
> Suppose a universe of discourse is given, where {lo linji} is in a
> domain of plural variable.
> In this universe of discourse, {lo linji xi no} can be separated into
> shorter {lo linji xi pany}:
>
> lo linji xi pano cu me lo linji xi no
> i
> lo linji xi papa cu me lo linji xi no
> i
> ...

That sounds like {pagbu} to me, although all those lines should be the 
same line mathematically, as they are all infinitely long. If you mean 
line segments, then I really would use {pagbu}.

> Repeat the separation also for {lo linji xi pany}.
> After infinite times of separation, {lo linji} is finally separated into
> {lo mokca} which is individual:
>
> RO DA poi ke'a me lo mokca zo'u lo mokca me DA

And you can also have a {lo mokca} that refers to more than one individual.

In any case, the fact that {lo mokca} is individual does not entail that 
{lo linji} does not refer to individuals.

Splitting an object and coming up with two entirely new sumti to 
describe each of the two resulting parts is not the same as saying that 
those two parts were {me lo <object>} all along. In other words, if I 
have a single expanse of water, then {lo djacu} is an individual, even 
if I have the ability to part the water (by filling it in two separate 
containers for instance) and ending up with two new {lo djacu}. The 
original {lo djacu} was still an individual. Splitting the water creates 
new objects in the universe of discourse, because the situation changes.

> but for any shorter {lo linji}:
>
> naku lo linji me lo mokca

I would say that, since lines are not points:

    no da poi linji ku'o su'o de poi mokca zo'u: da me de

No line is ever among something that is a point. And the reverse is also 
true: No point is among a line. Points are parts of lines, but they 
don't share the same referent(s).

> Therefore, any {lo linji} does not satisfy
> RO DA poi ke'a me lo linji zo'u lo linji me DA
>
> {lo linji} in this universe of discourse is not an individual.

It sounds to me like you are taking "individual" to mean "atomic, 
non-separable thing". But individual just means that it can be 
distinguished from other things as a referent.

The moment you say {lo linji} that sumti refers to something(s), and 
that something is one or more individuals. How else could it be {lo broda}?

Even if you end up with a single {lo mokca} in the end, at no point does 
{lo mokca cu me lo linji}, but {lo mokca cu pagbu lo linji}.

So I still cannot see at what point there was anything besides individuals.

mi'e la selpa'i mu'o


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