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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 19:15:45 -0200
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2d5jc30uk4FDBdTJyYoQ9DAxzZHnLRjzFhxc22QFJkTkw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Individuals and xorlo
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:19 AM, guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> {lo linji} in that universe of discourse are not individuals but an
> infinite number of non-individuals,
>

I think you want "sirji" (segments), not "linji (lines). In the universe of
discourse under consideration there are no segments or lines, there are
only points. In that universe, we can use the predicate "linji" but with a
slightly different definition than the standard: "x1 are all the points
aligned with points x2". And "sirji" can be redefined for the points only
universe as "x1 are all the points aligned between point x2 and (different)
point x3".

Now "lo sirji be abu bei by cu me lo sirji be abu bei cy" is fine, "the
points aligned between point a and point b are among the points aligned
between point a and point c". As you say, there is no individual "lo sirji"
in this universe. "lo sirji" always refers to an infinite number of points.

The problem arises when you say that "lo sirji is a non-individual". It is
not. lo sirji are just points, not "an" anything. You may call it a
non-individual in some metalanguage, but in the language you can't, because
there are nothing but points in the universe, nothing else. "lo pa sirji",
in this universe of discourse, is nonsense, because the only things that
can sirji cannot do it alone, they must always do it collectively in
infinite numbers. There's only "lo ci'i sirji", "the infinite number of
points aligned between two points". If you want to quantify over segments,
for example if you want to say something about two segments, you are forced
to move to a universe of discourse that has segments in it.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:19 AM, guskant <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gusni.kantu@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gusni.kantu@gmail.c=
om</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D""><div><br></=
div></div><div>{lo linji} in that universe of discourse are not individuals=
 but an infinite number of=A0non-individuals,=A0</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think you want &quot;sirji&quot; (=
segments), not &quot;linji (lines). In the universe of discourse under cons=
ideration there are no segments or lines, there are only points. In that un=
iverse, we can use the predicate &quot;linji&quot; but with a slightly diff=
erent definition than the standard: &quot;x1 are all the points aligned wit=
h points x2&quot;. And &quot;sirji&quot; can be redefined for the points on=
ly universe as &quot;x1 are all the points aligned between point x2 and (di=
fferent) point x3&quot;.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Now &quot;lo sirji be abu bei by cu me lo sirji be abu =
bei cy&quot; is fine, &quot;the points aligned between point a and point b =
are among the points aligned between point a and point c&quot;. As you say,=
 there is no individual &quot;lo sirji&quot; in this universe. &quot;lo sir=
ji&quot; always refers to an infinite number of points.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The problem arises when you say that &quot;lo sirji is =
a non-individual&quot;. It is not. lo sirji are just points, not &quot;an&q=
uot; anything. You may call it a non-individual in some metalanguage, but i=
n the language you can&#39;t, because there are nothing but points in the u=
niverse, nothing else. &quot;lo pa sirji&quot;, in this universe of discour=
se, is nonsense, because the only things that can sirji cannot do it alone,=
 they must always do it collectively in infinite numbers. There&#39;s only =
&quot;lo ci&#39;i sirji&quot;, &quot;the infinite number of points aligned =
between two points&quot;. If you want to quantify over segments, for exampl=
e if you want to say something about two segments, you are forced to move t=
o a universe of discourse that has segments in it.</div>
<div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></di=
v></div>

<p></p>

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