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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 14:38:29 -0500
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Subject: Re: [lojban] [oz] {ze'a lo nu ko'a jmive}
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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  Two points.  First, why does "lo nu ko'a jmive" have to refer to an
entire lifespan?  Am I not living between 10 AM and 11AM this morning?  Is
that span not a "nu ko'a jmive"? (It seems you would be happier if there
were a "pi so'e" before the "lo nu..." )

  Second, oddly enough, it happens to agree with my own (admittedly,
non-CLL-standard) interpretation of ZEhA/VEhA+SUMTI, namely that it "ze'i
ko'a" means "during a small portion of ko'a"; "ze'a ko'a" "about half the
duration of ko'a"; "ze'u ko'a", "during most of ko'a", and "ze'e ko'a",
"during all of ko'a".  My argument for these are that otherwise ZEhA+SUMTI
doesn't make things relative to the sumti, in an analogous manner as
PU+SUMTI,  FAhA+SUMTI, BAI+SUMTI etc do (and, I would argue, as should
VA/ZI+SUMTI).  Otherwise what's the point of having four different versions
when they would all mean the same length of time/distance?)

  (I know the arguments against this interpretation, but just throwing it
out there).

                        --gejyspa


On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Felipe Gon=C3=A7alves Assis <
felipeg.assis@gmail.com> wrote:

> Examples:
> (1) {ba lo nu lo mi p=C3=A0tfu cu mrob=C3=AC'o kei mi k=C3=B9rji lo mi to=
lc=C3=AC'o m=C3=A0mta ze'a
> lo nu my cu jm=C3=ACve}
> (2) {mi ta ba d=C3=A0mba ze'a lo nu mi jm=C3=ACve}
>
> I get {lo nu ko'a jmive} to refer to the whole life of ko'a, but these
> examples clearly refer only to part of its life. In the case of (1), the
> widowhood. In the case of (2), to the presence of the fouls.
>
> Arguing that {nunji'e} is distributive won't help, since this would make
> the sentences less than informative.
>
> What about {renvi}?
>
> mu'o
> mi'e .asiz.
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 Two points. =C2=A0First, why does &quot;lo nu ko=
9;a jmive&quot; have to refer to an entire lifespan? =C2=A0Am I not living =
between 10 AM and 11AM this morning? =C2=A0Is that span not a &quot;nu ko&#=
39;a jmive&quot;? (It seems you would be happier if there were a &quot;pi s=
o&#39;e&quot; before the &quot;lo nu...&quot; )<div>
<br></div><div>=C2=A0 Second, oddly enough, it happens to agree with my own=
 (admittedly, non-CLL-standard) interpretation of ZEhA/VEhA+SUMTI, namely t=
hat it &quot;ze&#39;i ko&#39;a&quot; means &quot;during a small portion of =
ko&#39;a&quot;; &quot;ze&#39;a ko&#39;a&quot; &quot;about half the duration=
 of ko&#39;a&quot;; &quot;ze&#39;u ko&#39;a&quot;, &quot;during most of ko&=
#39;a&quot;, and &quot;ze&#39;e ko&#39;a&quot;, &quot;during all of ko&#39;=
a&quot;. =C2=A0My argument for these are that otherwise ZEhA+SUMTI doesn=
9;t make things relative to the sumti, in an analogous manner as PU+SUMTI, =
=C2=A0FAhA+SUMTI, BAI+SUMTI etc do (and, I would argue, as should VA/ZI+SUM=
TI). =C2=A0Otherwise what&#39;s the point of having four different versions=
 when they would all mean the same length of time/distance?)</div>
<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 (I know the arguments against this interpretatio=
n, but just throwing it out there).</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gej=
yspa</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Felipe Gon=C3=A7=
alves Assis <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:felipeg.assis@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">felipeg.assis@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Examples:<br>(1) {ba lo nu lo mi p=C3=A0tfu cu mrob=C3=AC&=
#39;o kei mi k=C3=B9rji lo mi tolc=C3=AC&#39;o m=C3=A0mta ze&#39;a lo nu my=
 cu jm=C3=ACve}<br>(2) {mi ta ba d=C3=A0mba ze&#39;a lo nu mi jm=C3=ACve}<b=
r><br>I get {lo nu ko&#39;a jmive} to refer to the whole life of ko&#39;a, =
but these examples clearly refer only to part of its life. In the case of (=
1), the widowhood. In the case of (2), to the presence of the fouls.<br>


<br>Arguing that {nunji&#39;e} is distributive won&#39;t help, since this w=
ould make the sentences less than informative.<br><br>What about {renvi}?<b=
r><br>mu&#39;o<br>mi&#39;e .asiz.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888=
888"><br>
</font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

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</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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