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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 19:41:04 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2eDDeZcqfXAv+0HQGG5TdH2pVHEan8CmMqrRg2L931-4w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Individuals and xorlo
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:24 AM, guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> For example, we may count {lo rokci} by its spatial detachment from
> environment, by its weight, by its spatial volume, by its radioactivity etc.
>

I don't know, that sounds more like "merli" than "kancu". I think "kancu"
must always use integers. If "kancu" was so wide open, we could have used
"klani" rather than "zilkancu" to define the inner quantifiers.


> Even a non-atomist can count {lo rokci} by one-some in some sense: when
> {lo rokci} is counted by one becquerel, a non-atomist considers that a half
> of {lo rokci} is also {me lo rokci}, that {lo rokci} is not an individual,
> and that {lo panono rokci} is still meaningful.
>

It may be difficult to define what a one-some is without individuals. One
way of defining the "PA mei" predicates goes something like this:

Start with "ro'oi da su'o [pa] mei".

Then define "su'o N mei" in terms of "su'o N-1 mei" as

ko'a su'o N mei := su'oi da poi me ko'a ku'o su'oi de poi me ko'a zo'u  ge
da su'o N-1 mei gi de na me da

And then define "N mei" as:

ko'a N mei  := ko'a su'o N mei gi'e nai su'o N+1 mei

I'm not sure if that requires atomicity or not, since all the quantifiers
used are plural.

The definition for "lo PA broda" then doesn't require "zilkancu":

lo PA broda := zo'e noi ke'a PA mei gi'e broda


mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 9:24 AM, guskant <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:gusni.kantu@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gusni.kantu@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>For example, we may c=
ount {lo rokci} by its spatial detachment from environment, by its weight, =
by its spatial volume, by its radioactivity etc.</div>

</div></blockquote><div>=A0</div><div><div>I don&#39;t know, that sounds mo=
re like &quot;merli&quot; than &quot;kancu&quot;. I think &quot;kancu&quot;=
 must always use integers. If &quot;kancu&quot; was so wide open, we could =
have used &quot;klani&quot; rather than &quot;zilkancu&quot; to define the =
inner quantifiers.</div>

<div>=A0=A0<br></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204=
);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> Even a n=
on-atomist can count {lo rokci} by one-some in some sense: when {lo rokci} =
is counted by one becquerel, a non-atomist considers that a half of {lo rok=
ci} is also {me lo rokci}, that {lo rokci} is not an individual, and that {=
lo panono rokci} is still meaningful.</div>

</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It may be difficult to define what a=
 one-some is without individuals. One way of defining the &quot;PA mei&quot=
; predicates goes something like this:</div><div><br></div><div>Start with =
&quot;ro&#39;oi da su&#39;o [pa] mei&quot;.=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>Then define &quot;su&#39;o N mei&quot; in terms of &quo=
t;su&#39;o N-1 mei&quot; as</div><div><br></div><div>ko&#39;a su&#39;o N me=
i :=3D su&#39;oi da poi me ko&#39;a ku&#39;o su&#39;oi de poi me ko&#39;a z=
o&#39;u =A0ge da su&#39;o N-1 mei gi de na me da =A0=A0</div>

<div><br></div><div>And then define &quot;N mei&quot; as:</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>ko&#39;a N mei =A0:=3D ko&#39;a su&#39;o N mei gi&#39;e nai su&#39;=
o N+1 mei=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m not sure if that requires ato=
micity or not, since all the quantifiers used are plural.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The definition for &quot;lo PA broda&quot; then doesn&#=
39;t require &quot;zilkancu&quot;:</div><div><br></div><div>lo PA broda :=
=3D zo&#39;e noi ke&#39;a PA mei gi&#39;e broda</div><div><br></div><div><b=
r>
</div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div>
</div></div></div>

<p></p>

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