Received: from mail-lb0-f185.google.com ([209.85.217.185]:59630) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WZYH2-0004iM-IQ for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 13 Apr 2014 21:13:58 -0700 Received: by mail-lb0-f185.google.com with SMTP id s7sf535222lbd.12 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2014 21:13:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=XXlD8urXaeZ3AkYq/qMq+Al1yJxvan+rUglvJ61dutY=; b=WJyp5BtGfk3+t1kSSzYq/cXHcXnUW2RKAhYQi6M2SVbLLE+3J1Ojb4nSpdMoZloaCf 2J7+vS6Uj4atYwwlfjkMyJEacXf8X1eo2HcFQsbQkdI0d72/mCmezEazDwavCE0gRmUx l2NG+uQ2q8OX7ZXLAEkEJ1QTnXyRDERd/gcEjjspLmW6UEO4nSRy7fKhM96MSKiUo5O5 +1mJRdV76HA12GB4GSHkVyiqwXuINs78z4FJjsf+rV9cHxoXuw4Bus3rMy5blO4o7zur lHxTWaz/IqBqSDCjELFST2w11Ums48V6dskhsx6RNS0PoDn/7m81igOwo0Z5wFEyzgFg BtHA== X-Received: by 10.180.79.202 with SMTP id l10mr30408wix.1.1397448808814; Sun, 13 Apr 2014 21:13:28 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.98.105 with SMTP id eh9ls421408wib.28.canary; Sun, 13 Apr 2014 21:13:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.189.133 with SMTP id gi5mr667662wic.3.1397448808015; Sun, 13 Apr 2014 21:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22f.google.com (mail-wi0-x22f.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w7si634930wif.0.2014.04.13.21.13.28 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 13 Apr 2014 21:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f; Received: by mail-wi0-f175.google.com with SMTP id cc10so3414714wib.14 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 2014 21:13:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.99.161 with SMTP id er1mr7864612wib.3.1397448807928; Sun, 13 Apr 2014 21:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.25.163 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Apr 2014 21:13:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <534AC78C.9090101@gmail.com> References: <534A975C.6070304@gmail.com> <534AC78C.9090101@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 08:13:27 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Tag compounds' semantics From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04426db0c9dd5804f6f8e78c X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 1 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. 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Content preview: 2014-04-13 21:21 GMT+04:00 Ilmen : > > On 13/04/2014 18:43, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Ilmen wrote: > >> coi ro do, >> >> Is { broda ri'u vi ko'a } equivalent to { broda ri'u zo'e vi ko'a } or to >> { broda ri'u ko'a vi ko'a }? >> > > CLL doesn't say it directly, but for the example you give it would > probably go with the latter, since for CLL the sumti complement of VA is > the origin of the "imaginary journey", just as for FAhA, and "FAhA VA" > combine to describe the same leg of the imaginary journey, so naturally > they have the same origin. > > > coi la .xorxes. > > Yeah, I thought that such tag coupounds could be expended as follow: > > {broda pu zu ko'a} = {lo nu broda ku ko'a purci gi'e te temci lo barda} > {broda ri'u vi ko'a} = {lo nu broda ku ko'a pritu gi'e sepli lo cmalu} > pei > [...] Content analysis details: (0.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (gleki.is.my.name[at]gmail.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid --f46d04426db0c9dd5804f6f8e78c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2014-04-13 21:21 GMT+04:00 Ilmen : > > On 13/04/2014 18:43, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Ilmen wrote: > >> coi ro do, >> >> Is { broda ri'u vi ko'a } equivalent to { broda ri'u zo'e vi ko'a } or t= o >> { broda ri'u ko'a vi ko'a }? >> > > CLL doesn't say it directly, but for the example you give it would > probably go with the latter, since for CLL the sumti complement of VA is > the origin of the "imaginary journey", just as for FAhA, and "FAhA VA" > combine to describe the same leg of the imaginary journey, so naturally > they have the same origin. > > > coi la .xorxes. > > Yeah, I thought that such tag coupounds could be expended as follow: > > {broda pu zu ko'a} =3D {lo nu broda ku ko'a purci gi'e te temci lo barda} > {broda ri'u vi ko'a} =3D {lo nu broda ku ko'a pritu gi'e sepli lo cmalu} > pei > How can {puzu ko'a} and {zupu ko'a} be distinguished according to this definition? > > > But for compound tenses that involve two or more FAhA, that is not the > case. Each FAhA describes a new leg of the journey, which starts where th= e > previous one left off, so they can't all share the same sumti complement = as > origin when separated. But the sumti complement of the compound will be t= he > origin for the first leg of the journey, which corresponds to the first > FAhA of the series, not the last one, So "ri'u ga'u ko'a" will break dow= n > as "ri'u ko'a ga'u zo'e", not as "ri'u zo'e ga'u ko'a". > > > {ri'u ga'u ko'a} =3D {ri'u ko'a ga'u zo'e}? This is... weird. o_O > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --f46d04426db0c9dd5804f6f8e78c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



2014-04-13 21:21 GMT+04:00 Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>:
=20 =20 =20

On 13/04/2014 18:43, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote:
On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com> wrote:
coi ro do,

Is { broda ri'u vi ko'a } equivalent to { broda ri= 9;u zo'e vi ko'a } or to { broda ri'u ko'a vi ko'a }?<= br>
=C2=A0
CLL doesn't say it directly, but for the example you give it would probably go with the latter, since for CLL the sumti complement of VA is the origin of the "imagina= ry journey", just as for FAhA, and "FAhA VA" comb= ine to describe the same leg of the imaginary journey, so naturally they have the same origin.

coi la .xorxes.

Yeah, I thought that such tag coupounds could be expended as follow:
{broda pu zu ko'a} =3D {lo nu broda ku ko'a purci gi'e te t= emci lo barda}
{broda ri'u vi ko'a} =3D {lo nu broda ku ko'a pritu gi'= e sepli lo cmalu}=C2=A0
pei

How can {puzu ko'a} =C2= =A0and {zupu ko'a} be distinguished according to this definition?
=


But for compound tenses that involve two or more FAhA, that is not the case. Each FAhA describes a new leg of the journey, which starts where the previous one left off, so they can't all share the same sumti complement as origin when separated. But the sumti complement of the compound will be the origin for the first leg of the journey, which corresponds to the first FAhA of the series, not the last one, =C2=A0So "ri'u ga'u ko'a" will bre= ak down as "ri'u ko'a ga'u zo'e", not as "ri'u zo'e ga= 9;u ko'a".

{ri'u ga'u ko'a} =3D {ri'u ko'a ga'u zo'e}?= =C2=A0 This is... weird. o_O

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