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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 08:25:02 +0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] What are the most important fu'ivla and cimjvo?
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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2014-04-17 22:14 GMT+04:00 Wuzzy <almikes@aol.com>:

> Am Wed, 9 Apr 2014 12:55:30 +0400
> schrieb Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>:
>
> > We know that gimste represents more or less most basic concepts.
> > But what about fu'ivla and cimjvo?
> > Although, we have a frequency dictionary what are in your opinion the
> > most important of them?
> I thing those so-called =E2=80=9Ccimjvo=E2=80=9D (what a silly word! An .=
u'ivla,
> really! xD)


zo cimjvo ba'e cimjvo gi'enai pe'i u'ivla


> are super rare in Lojban. I can=E2=80=99t you give any new examples
> and I don=E2=80=99t think they play a large role in Lojban. Metaphors are=
 an
> exception in lujvo already. Dropping the pe'a as well is an exception
> to an exception. So it=E2=80=99s no wonder I can=E2=80=99t name you such =
words.
> And that=E2=80=99s good. In Lojban, everything is to be taken literally e=
xcept
> when otherwise stated. This is a very good idea in my eyes and I don=E2=
=80=99t
> see why this principle should be broken.
>
> Instead of translating such strange words, I think it may be more
> appropriate to create a new word instead, one which does not need a
> metaphor in the first place. At the very least, a new word where the
> metaphor is explicit (with =E2=80=9Cpe'a=E2=80=9D) can always be created =
from the old
> word.
> I just did that with =E2=80=9Ccimjvo=E2=80=9D by creating =E2=80=9Cpevyci=
mjvo=E2=80=9D. The definition
> of =E2=80=9Ccimjvo=E2=80=9D is actually useful, it=E2=80=99s just the wor=
d that=E2=80=99s silly (to me).
>
> BTW: I don=E2=80=99t count =E2=80=9Cfu'ivla=E2=80=9D as a an implicit met=
aphor lujvo. A loan
> word is really just a =E2=80=9Ccopy word=E2=80=9D. You copy the word from=
 one language
> to another. Okay, maybe not EXACTLY copy it, but you get the idea. The
> relations of rafsi in lujvo do not have to be 100% accurate. but that
> does not make them to metaphors already.
>
> I am unsure about =E2=80=9Czi'evla=E2=80=9D, however.
>
> --
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">2014-04-17 22:14 GMT+04:00 Wuzzy <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:almikes@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">almikes@aol.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Am Wed, 9 Apr 2014 12:55:30 +0400<br>
schrieb Gleki Arxokuna &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com">gl=
eki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;:<br>
<div class=3D""><br>
&gt; We know that gimste represents more or less most basic concepts.<br>
&gt; But what about fu&#39;ivla and cimjvo?<br>
&gt; Although, we have a frequency dictionary what are in your opinion the<=
br>
&gt; most important of them?<br>
</div>I thing those so-called =E2=80=9Ccimjvo=E2=80=9D (what a silly word! =
An .u&#39;ivla,<br>
really! xD)</blockquote><div><br></div><div>zo cimjvo ba&#39;e cimjvo gi=
9;enai pe&#39;i u&#39;ivla</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex">
 are super rare in Lojban. I can=E2=80=99t you give any new examples<br>
and I don=E2=80=99t think they play a large role in Lojban. Metaphors are a=
n<br>
exception in lujvo already. Dropping the pe&#39;a as well is an exception<b=
r>
to an exception. So it=E2=80=99s no wonder I can=E2=80=99t name you such wo=
rds.<br>
And that=E2=80=99s good. In Lojban, everything is to be taken literally exc=
ept<br>
when otherwise stated. This is a very good idea in my eyes and I don=E2=80=
=99t<br>
see why this principle should be broken.<br>
<br>
Instead of translating such strange words, I think it may be more<br>
appropriate to create a new word instead, one which does not need a<br>
metaphor in the first place. At the very least, a new word where the<br>
metaphor is explicit (with =E2=80=9Cpe&#39;a=E2=80=9D) can always be create=
d from the old<br>
word.<br>
I just did that with =E2=80=9Ccimjvo=E2=80=9D by creating =E2=80=9Cpevycimj=
vo=E2=80=9D. The definition<br>
of =E2=80=9Ccimjvo=E2=80=9D is actually useful, it=E2=80=99s just the word =
that=E2=80=99s silly (to me).<br>
<br>
BTW: I don=E2=80=99t count =E2=80=9Cfu&#39;ivla=E2=80=9D as a an implicit m=
etaphor lujvo. A loan<br>
word is really just a =E2=80=9Ccopy word=E2=80=9D. You copy the word from o=
ne language<br>
to another. Okay, maybe not EXACTLY copy it, but you get the idea. The<br>
relations of rafsi in lujvo do not have to be 100% accurate. but that<br>
does not make them to metaphors already.<br>
<br>
I am unsure about =E2=80=9Czi&#39;evla=E2=80=9D, however.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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