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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 16:08:36 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] jbovlaste, vlatai, camxes and morphology
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Riley Martinez-Lynch
<shunpiker@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
> I ran all of the words in jbovlaste through camxes and filed issues #38<https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/38>,
> #39 <https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/39>, #40<https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/40>and
> #41 <https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/41> to record issues
> encountered with (respectively) cmavo, cmene, fu'ivla and lujvo.
>

The issues with cmevla and fu'ivla have to do with which syllables are
considered acceptable in Lojban words. CLL is not completely clear on that,
and that's why different parsers went with different things. A syllable
consists of an onset, a nucleus and a coda. For camxes, a valid syllable
has:

 - a single consonant or nothing as coda
 - one of this 10 valid nuclei: a, e, i, o, u, ai, au, ei, oi, y
 - one of many valid onsets.

Valid onsets are:
 . (glottal stop) only at the beginning of the word,
 ' (apostrophe) not at the beginning of the word.
 C (any other consonant)
 i/u
 Ci/Cu
 CC (any one of the permissible initial pairs listed in CLL)
 CCC (a slightly more restricted list than what can be derived from the
rules in CLL. Basically those that fall within this pattern
[sczj][bdfgkmnptvx][lr] with each CC being a permissible initial pair.)

And then there are the 64 consonantal syllables, consisting of any
consonant followed by [lmnr] (but not repeating the same consonant).

vlatai allows syllables like CCiV/CCuV, codas with more than one consonant,
empty onsets (as in "oa"). I think those three account for most of the
differences in what camxes and vlatai allow.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Riley Martinez-Lynch <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:shunpiker@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">shunpiker@gmail.c=
om</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>I ran all of the words in jbovlaste th=
rough camxes and filed issues <a href=3D"https://github.com/lojban/jbovlast=
e/issues/38" target=3D"_blank">#38</a>, <a href=3D"https://github.com/lojba=
n/jbovlaste/issues/39" target=3D"_blank">#39</a>, <a href=3D"https://github=
.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/40" target=3D"_blank">#40</a> and <a href=3D"h=
ttps://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/41" target=3D"_blank">#41</a>=C2=
=A0to record issues encountered with (respectively) cmavo, cmene, fu&#39;iv=
la and lujvo.=C2=A0</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The issues with cmevla and fu&#39;iv=
la have to do with which syllables are considered acceptable in Lojban word=
s. CLL is not completely clear on that, and that&#39;s why different parser=
s went with different things. A syllable consists of an onset, a nucleus an=
d a coda. For camxes, a valid syllable has:=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0- a single consonant or nothing as coda</div><div=
>=C2=A0- one of this 10 valid nuclei: a, e, i, o, u, ai, au, ei, oi, y</div=
><div>=C2=A0- one of many valid onsets.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Vali=
d onsets are:</div>
<div>=C2=A0. (glottal stop) only at the beginning of the word,</div><div>=
=C2=A0&#39; (apostrophe) not at the beginning of the word.</div><div>=C2=A0=
C (any other consonant)</div><div>=C2=A0i/u</div><div>=C2=A0Ci/Cu</div><div=
>=C2=A0CC (any one of the permissible initial pairs listed in CLL)=C2=A0</d=
iv>
<div>=C2=A0CCC (a slightly more restricted list than what can be derived fr=
om the rules in CLL. Basically those that fall within this pattern [sczj][b=
dfgkmnptvx][lr] with each CC being a permissible initial pair.)</div><div><=
br>
</div><div>And then there are the 64 consonantal syllables, consisting of a=
ny consonant followed by [lmnr] (but not repeating the same consonant).</di=
v><div><br></div><div>vlatai allows syllables like CCiV/CCuV, codas with mo=
re than one consonant, empty onsets (as in &quot;oa&quot;). I think those t=
hree account for most of the differences in what camxes and vlatai allow.</=
div>
<div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></di=
v></div>

<p></p>

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