Received: from mail-fa0-f62.google.com ([209.85.161.62]:56134) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WbYzm-0006qM-UW for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:24:13 -0700 Received: by mail-fa0-f62.google.com with SMTP id a10sf235146fad.27 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:23:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ECBH3FF5ibX/fXXgmdy4pInkaUQYEP1vp54WF2bOB00=; b=KQtS2UDUddmTIa5vdm7v3vrioFHc7LfJxbyTgeq9ELD7xCtdod7CCQqN6tCKfdkFTd tc2yJuvclTVlghg5/j51S8NMSF8k7lUHVljyXXgcoNhjkMQQREeKLM1z5UFhYITEH/6z uvylYaIMt7N0UFqv41UUL8EAk8EEqc8rplwbzljSdD26cql6pqMiFc6KuNg0xirFCCoI jH8of1FgBnOZ3PaykWasjudtVfHYUwdTMtaoXjgk9EgBAN5wmNotg6D3tThBSRdNztD7 5LaJn8g46h2rb6jBE5UolSkWG3xz+ZEUWAEEM7/azpgAq1NP5/OyerT3hUEfxOdxHqii aDzw== X-Received: by 10.152.4.38 with SMTP id h6mr27177lah.6.1397928239658; Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:23:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.2.8 with SMTP id 8ls370316laq.30.gmail; Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:23:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.145.162 with SMTP id sv2mr140223lbb.15.1397928238889; Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x233.google.com (mail-wg0-x233.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u3si89491wiw.3.2014.04.19.10.23.58 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::233; Received: by mail-wg0-f51.google.com with SMTP id k14so1422049wgh.34 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:23:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.81.98 with SMTP id z2mr21739774wjx.12.1397928238763; Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.25.163 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:23:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140419162239.7c5e332e@aol.com> References: <20140419162239.7c5e332e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 21:23:58 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] I'm trying to do the Lojban translation ... From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd6ba7017d42504f7688805 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --047d7bd6ba7017d42504f7688805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2014-04-19 18:22 GMT+04:00 Wuzzy : > ALRIGHT, let=E2=80=99s do this! > > First of all, I am going to assume that you did NOT want to have proper > names. Not sure if 'ey is reading this. Anyway I linked this discussion in G+. > You wrote everything as a proper name but I guess you actually > want to have the substantives, verbs or adjectives translated. I > pretend you have written everything in lower-case. > > Before I start, first some notes: > Before you use a translation, ALWAYS check the words in jbovlaste or > vlatai before using them. Don=E2=80=99t just blindly take the translation= s, you > will be doomed to fail. > English words have like 1000 possible interpretations and can=E2=80=99t > guarantee that I always guessed the correct one. > > I translated nouns with =E2=80=9Clo TEXT=E2=80=9D, in sumti form. > Verbs and adjectives are translated with =E2=80=9CTEXT=E2=80=9D, as a sel= bri. > Not sure if such strict emulation is always a good policy. Sometimes English just can't use a verb where it is desirable. I will omit words I did not translate. But I translated a lot of > them. :-) > > In my translation, I make no distinction between singular and plural. > Since the number does often not matter, after all. > A translation for a singular can be obtained with =E2=80=9Clo pa TEXT=E2= =80=9D, eg. > =E2=80=9Clo pa matci=E2=80=9D (a mattress/exactly one mattress). > A translation for a plural can be obtained with =E2=80=9Clo za'u pa TEXT= =E2=80=9D, > eg. =E2=80=9Clo za'u pa matci=E2=80=9D (mattresses/more than one mattress= ). > > For some terms we have an unambigious word ready in Lojban and in the > dictionary. I did not coin any lujvo or fu'ivla ad hoc. For words where > there is no word in the dictionary ready, I created a tanru instead. > Sometimes there=E2=80=99s even a gismu for that. But be a bit careful wit= h > those, as those are often vague. > In the square brackets, I wrote a more or less literal > reverse translation. This is interesting for tanru. > > You posted a lot of interesting words and I think most of them deserve > their own Lojban words. I am sure the translation results may help > other lojbanists as well. :-) > Perhaps I will make lujvo of the most useful tanru in the future, and > publish the results on jbovlaste. > > BUT NOW finally for the translations: > > > Ceiling > lo drudi (very very unsure) > > > TV Stand > lo veltivjoividni zbepi > lo ti'ivni zbepi > lo tivyvidni zbepi > (basically depends wheather you mean TV set or TV screen) > why not just {lo tivni tutci} ... > > > Trash Can > Same as =E2=80=9Crecycle bin=E2=80=9D: > lo festi baktu [waste-bucket] > > > Headphones > lo kertintci [headphone] > > > Bed Frame > lo ckana greku [bed-frame] > > > Mattress > lo matci [mat/pad/mattress/pallet] > > > Pillow > lo kicne [cushion] > > > Keys > lo ckiku [key to open a lock] > lo daplu [sort of island] > > > Door Frame > lo vorme greku [doorway-frame] > > > Basin > lo tansi [ban/basin/tub/sink] > > > Lid > lo ve botpi [lid of a bottle] > lo drudi [roof/top/ceiling/lid on top of something] > > > Mirror > lo minra [mirror] > > > Soap Dish > lo zbabu palne [soap-tray] > > > Mug > lo kabri [cup/glass/tumbler/mug/vessel] > > > Coaster > lo zdima'aterte'e [roller-coaster] > > > Cutting Board > lo nu katna kei tanbo [cutting-board] > or {lo nunkatna tanbo} saving one syllable > > Kettle > lo patxu [pot/kettle/urn/tub/sink] > > > Hood > lo sedgai [hood/headgear] > > > Doorknob > lo vrogaibatke [doorknob] > > > Toilet Seat > lo vimstizu [excrete-seat] > > > Light > linto [to be light in weight] > gusni [to illuminate/to be a light] > lo gusni [a light] > > > Razor > lo balre [blade] > > > Jar > lo botpi [bottle/jar/urn/flask/closable container] > > > Recycle Bin > Same as =E2=80=9Ctrash can=E2=80=9D: > lo festi baktu [waste-bucket] > > > Laundry Basket > lo taxfu vasru [clothing-container] > > > Dustpan > le nu lumci kei canpa [cleaning-shovel] > Any special reason for {le} here? > > > Tool Box > lo tutci tanxe [tool-box/crate] > > > Movie > lo skina [cinema/movie/film] > > > Amplifier > > Blinds > lo murta [curtain/blinds/drapes] > > > Comic Book > lo lisxra cukta [comic strip book] > > > Slippers > lo ctecutci [slipper/=E2=80=9Cnight shoe=E2=80=9D] > lo zdacutci [slipper/=E2=80=9Chouse shoe=E2=80=9D] > > > Sandals > lo karcutci [sandal] > > > Ash Tray > lo fagyfesti palne [ashes-tray] > > > Laundry Detergent > lo taxfu ke lumci xukmi [clothing-(cleaner-chemical)] > > This has been made in two parts and then has been combined: > laundry: > lo taxfu [clothing (not implying dirt for simplicity=E2=80=99s sa= ke)] > > detergent: > lo lumci xukmi [cleaner-chemical] > > > Matches > lo sacki [match (incendiary device)] > > > Stapler > lo plopijne tutci [staple-tool] > > > Sauce Pan > lo sanso tansi [sauce-pan] > > > Strainer > lo te rinci [drain/strainer] > lo julne [filter] > > > Corn > lo gurni [grain/Brisish =E2=80=9Ccorn=E2=80=9D] > lo zumri [corn/maize] > > > Cereal > lo gurni (depends what you mean with =E2=80=9Ccereal=E2=80=9D) > > > Chips > lo ga'arpatlu [French fries/British =E2=80=9Cchips=E2=80=9D] > ????????????? [chips (American sense)] > > > Pork > lo xarju [living pig/pork/hog] > lo xarju retcu [pork-meat] > lo xarju *rectu * > > Teacup > lo tcati kapri [tea-cup] > > > Serving Tray > lo nu selfu kei palne [event-of-serving-tray] > > > Cooking Oil > lo nu jukpa kei grasu [event-of-cooking-oil] > > > Frying Pan > lo juptansi [frying pan/wok] > > > Notepad > lo notci tutci [note-tool] (poor tanru, I know) > > > Marker > lo barna pinsi [mark-pencil] > > > Watermelon > lo guzme [generic melon (plant/fruit)] > > > Annoying > x1 fanza x2 > [x1 (an event) is annoying for x2] > x1 fazgau x2 x3 > [x1 (an annoyer) does x2 (an event), which is annoying for x3] > since we dont know the context {fanza} would be enough > > > Greasy > ka grasu [to have a property of grease] > > > Frozen > bisli [to be ice] (poor translation) i think {bisli} does mean "frozen". glossing it in dictionaries is a separate problem. > > > Comfortable > kumfa [to be comfortable] > > > Awesome > banli [great/grant/awesome/etc. etc. etc.] > > > Smelly > se panci [to emit a smell to someone] > -OR- > se sumne [to have a smell to someone] > > > Wooden > mudri [to be wood] > > > Juicy > ka jisra [to have a property of juicyness] > jisra [to be juice] > > > Stylish > This can=E2=80=99t probably be translated in a good way, since the word > =E2=80=9Cstylish=E2=80=9D is too vague to me. > > > Addictive > se maltcu [derogative] > > > Flammable > jelca [to be flammable/to burn] > > > Dangerous > ckape [to be dangerous] > > > Rotate > carna [to rotate] > > > Blend > lo mixre [a blend] > mixre gasnu [to cause something to be a blend] > > > Tighten > tagji gasnu [to cause something to be tight] > tagji zukte [to cause something to be tight, with a goal] > > > Take (picture) > kacmyterxra [to take a picture/photo] > > > Light > We already had this. > but we dont have context! > > > Dispose > fesygau [to leave a waste product] > > > Heal > mikce [to doctor/to treat/to nurse/etc., very generic sense] > > > Drip > lo dirgo [a drop] > > > Flush > rinci > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7bd6ba7017d42504f7688805 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



2014-04-19 18:22 GMT+04:00 Wuzzy <almikes@aol.com>:
ALRIGHT, let=E2=80=99s do this!

First of all, I am going to assume that you did NOT want to have proper
names.

Not sure if 'ey is reading this.= Anyway I linked this discussion in G+.

=C2=A0
You wrote everything as a proper name but I guess you actually
want to have the substantives, verbs or adjectives translated. I
pretend you have written everything in lower-case.

Before I start, first some notes:
Before you use a translation, ALWAYS check the words in jbovlaste or
vlatai before using them. Don=E2=80=99t just blindly take the translations,= you
will be doomed to fail.
English words have like 1000 possible interpretations and can=E2=80=99t
guarantee that I always guessed the correct one.

I translated nouns with =E2=80=9Clo TEXT=E2=80=9D, in sumti form.
Verbs and adjectives are translated with =E2=80=9CTEXT=E2=80=9D, as a selbr= i.

Not sure if such strict emulation is= always a good policy. Sometimes English just can't use a verb where it= is desirable.

I will omit words I did not translate. But I translated a lot of
them. :-)

In my translation, I make no distinction between singular and plural.
Since the number does often not matter, after all.
A translation for a singular can be obtained with =E2=80=9Clo pa TEXT=E2=80= =9D, eg.
=E2=80=9Clo pa matci=E2=80=9D (a mattress/exactly one mattress).
A translation for a plural can be obtained with =E2=80=9Clo za'u pa TEX= T=E2=80=9D,
eg. =E2=80=9Clo za'u pa matci=E2=80=9D (mattresses/more than one mattre= ss).

For some terms we have an unambigious word ready in Lojban and in the
dictionary. I did not coin any lujvo or fu'ivla ad hoc. For words where=
there is no word in the dictionary ready, I created a tanru instead.
Sometimes there=E2=80=99s even a gismu for that. But be a bit careful with<= br> those, as those are often vague.
In the square brackets, I wrote a more or less literal
reverse translation. This is interesting for tanru.

You posted a lot of interesting words and I think most of them deserve
their own Lojban words. I am sure the translation results may help
other lojbanists as well. :-)
Perhaps I will make lujvo of the most useful tanru in the future, and
publish the results on jbovlaste.

BUT NOW finally for the translations:

> Ceiling
lo drudi (very very unsure)

> TV Stand
lo veltivjoividni zbepi
lo ti'ivni zbepi
lo tivyvidni zbepi
(basically depends wheather you mean TV set or TV screen)
<= div>why not just {lo tivni tutci} ...

> Trash Can
Same as =E2=80=9Crecycle bin=E2=80=9D:
lo festi baktu [waste-bucket]

> Headphones
lo kertintci [headphone]

> Bed Frame
lo ckana greku [bed-frame]

> Mattress
lo matci [mat/pad/mattress/pallet]

> Pillow
lo kicne [cushion]

> Keys
lo ckiku [key to open a lock]
lo daplu [sort of island]

> Door Frame
lo vorme greku [doorway-frame]

> Basin
lo tansi [ban/basin/tub/sink]

> Lid
lo ve botpi [lid of a bottle]
lo drudi [roof/top/ceiling/lid on top of something]

> Mirror
lo minra [mirror]

> Soap Dish
lo zbabu palne [soap-tray]

> Mug
lo kabri [cup/glass/tumbler/mug/vessel]

> Coaster
lo zdima'aterte'e [roller-coaster]

> Cutting Board
lo nu katna kei tanbo [cutting-board]
or {lo nunkatna = tanbo} =C2=A0saving one syllable


> Ash Tray
lo fagyfesti palne [ashes-tray]

> Laundry Detergent
lo taxfu ke lumci xukmi [clothing-(cleaner-chemical)]

This has been made in two parts and then has been combined:
laundry:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lo taxfu [clothing (not implying dirt for simpl= icity=E2=80=99s sake)]

detergent:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lo lumci xukmi [cleaner-chemical]

> Matches
lo sacki [match (incendiary device)]

> Stapler
lo plopijne tutci [staple-tool]

> Sauce Pan
lo sanso tansi [sauce-pan]

> Strainer
lo te rinci [drain/strainer]
lo julne [filter]

> Corn
lo gurni [grain/Brisish =E2=80=9Ccorn=E2=80=9D]
lo zumri [corn/maize]

> Cereal
lo gurni (depends what you mean with =E2=80=9Ccereal=E2=80=9D)

> Chips
lo ga'arpatlu [French fries/British =E2=80=9Cchips=E2=80=9D]
????????????? [chips (American sense)]

> Pork
lo xarju [living pig/pork/hog]
lo xarju retcu [pork-meat]
lo xarju rectu=C2=A0=


> Teacup
lo tcati kapri [tea-cup]

> Serving Tray
lo nu selfu kei palne [event-of-serving-tray]

> Cooking Oil
lo nu jukpa kei grasu [event-of-cooking-oil]

> Frying Pan
lo juptansi [frying pan/wok]

> Notepad
lo notci tutci [note-tool] (poor tanru, I know)

> Marker
lo barna pinsi [mark-pencil]

> Watermelon
lo guzme [generic melon (plant/fruit)]

> Annoying
x1 fanza x2
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [x1 (an event) is annoying for x2]
x1 fazgau x2 x3
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [x1 (an annoyer) does x2 (an event), which is a= nnoying for x3]

since we dont know the = context {fanza} would be enough=C2=A0

> Greasy
ka grasu [to have a property of grease]

> Frozen
bisli [to be ice] (poor translation)
i think {bisli} does = mean "frozen". glossing it in dictionaries is a separate problem.=
=C2=A0

> Comfortable
kumfa [to be comfortable]

> Awesome
banli [great/grant/awesome/etc. etc. etc.]

> Smelly
se panci [to emit a smell to someone]
-OR-
se sumne [to have a smell to someone]

> Wooden
mudri [to be wood]

> Juicy
ka jisra [to have a property of juicyness]
jisra [to be juice]

> Stylish
This can=E2=80=99t probably be translated in a good way, since the word
=E2=80=9Cstylish=E2=80=9D is too vague to me.

> Addictive
se maltcu [derogative]

> Flammable
jelca [to be flammable/to burn]

> Dangerous
ckape [to be dangerous]

> Rotate
carna [to rotate]

> Blend
lo mixre [a blend]
mixre gasnu [to cause something to be a blend]

> Tighten
tagji gasnu [to cause something to be tight]
tagji zukte [to cause something to be tight, with a goal]

> Take (picture)
kacmyterxra [to take a picture/photo]

> Light
We already had this.
but we dont have context!
=C2= =A0

> Dispose
fesygau [to leave a waste product]

> Heal
mikce [to doctor/to treat/to nurse/etc., very generic sense]

> Drip
lo dirgo [a drop]

> Flush
rinci

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--047d7bd6ba7017d42504f7688805--